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Old 09-08-2019, 08:07 PM   #1
petercop
 
Drives: 2010 Synergy Edition
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2010 camaro v6 m6 - crank no start

Hello,

Picked up used V6 manual. Car las low miles. Has spark and fuel and cranks but no start. I expect it is the timing chain as it sounds like it wants to catch. I confirmed I have spark. Bank1 Plugs are wet, Bank 2 plugs are soot/fouled. I put new set of plugs and air out the cylinders. Wanted to catch but can’t. No help from ether. Changed oil as it smelled of fuel as prior owner was probably cranking to diagnose the problem.

Have not done compression check yet. What is a good pressure I want to see and if any of the cylinders are low, would that diagnose to a timing chain replace?

Thanks.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:08 PM   #2
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Any thoughts on this?
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:02 PM   #3
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Check compression in all the cylinders, If they are all low good bet the chains have jumped time.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:53 AM   #4
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Thanks, I will do this later today and report readings. What pressure am I looking for? Also, is there a trick to checking coil function? My spark checker does not stay plugged into the coil and it is near impossible to seat the boot of the checker on the plug deep in the valve covet
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:17 AM   #5
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Ok, Right bank 1/3/5 all zero psi on comp test

Left Bank 2/4/6 are 65/80/60 psi.

If I pul covers and deterrmine cams are out of phase, can I try to “unjump” the chain to set them proper and perform a leakdown test to see iof valves are bent. I don’t want to pull the heads if I do not have to. But I also don’t want to install chain kit, button up engine and find out I have bent valves.

I have order the cm lock plates to help get the cams lined up and the Melling Timing Chain video shows the cam positions. Csn I do this or am I pulling heads?
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:17 PM   #6
canadian ss
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It might depend on how far the chain jumped. If it jumper far or broke, you're pulling heads.

If you have 0 psi on one bank, that would indicate bent valves to me.

If you have shop air/compressed air, put it into your compression tester line and listen for air coming out of the throttle body and exhaust. If its blowing air with the valves closed, pull the heads.

If you plan on doing the chain at home, rotate the cam till the valves close in a cylinder and re-check your compression. If its still 0 psi, pull the heads. Both sides.
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:42 PM   #7
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Follow-up on heads

OK, had weekend to myself so I tore the motor down to the block to remove the heads. Took my time, saved every piece of hardware and tagged every harness. Not as bad as I thought and I have big hands and fat forearms. I have a four post lift so I had good access up and own.

From what I see, when the "event" occurred, it bent all the bank 1 intake valves and snapped the intake rockers on cylinder 3. It broke the exhaust cam journal caps on either side of cylinder 5. Bank 2 head looks ok. Keeping in mind that bank two measured low compression (2/4/6 were 65/80/65) I am thinking rings on bank 2 were fuel washed.

It appears that the exhaust VVT gear on bank 1 was loose on right bank and over time was wearing the pin. Ultimately the VVT bolt snapped and all hell broke loose. I say that because the VVT pinhole was worn on the cam. Had to be loose for a few miles to get that wear pattern.

I bought the car not running. I assume the Owner was ignoring CELs if the VVT was loose.


Stripped the heads and went to the machine shop. Owner was very patient and informative. The bad news is bank 1 head is toast and cannot be rebuilt due to cam journal fractures. These are mating parts when head is maunfactured and it would be cost prohibitive to bore and sleeve replacements. He told me if I go the head/timing chain route, I need to get a replacement head.

And the machine shop owner raised the question that "the event" could have harmed the bottom end due to the severity of the head damage (broken journals). He suggested cut and run on fixing this motor and getting a crate motor or a rebuilt.

So my dilemna is this....the pistons are carboned but look OK other than a few nicks from the intake valves. I attached pics of 1/3/5. Have no concerns of any contact on 2/4/6.

My buddy at Chevy can get a crate long block with heads and timing change with t/c cover for $3900. I bolt on my fuel system, intake and front harness. and get a 3 year 100K warranty on the motor.

I was going to do the clutch anyway so no issue with that other than time and money.

If I stay the course, I have to buy a bnk 1 head, all the hardware/gaskets and chain kit. Probably looking at $1500 if I don't touch bank 2 head and $2000 if I do. And my free labor (it's a hobby for me)

I attached pics of bank 1 cylinder, the exhaust VVT and exhaust cam.

Also, pic of the bank 1 head gasket...is this GM original or aftermarket. It is 3 ply gasket.

And finally, look at picture of the head. Is all this tannish RTV sealant between the head and timing cover GM original or repair shop? I am wondering if timing chain was done and VVT was not proper installed leading to all this trauma.

Any thoughts on path forward? Car has 70,000 miles and is in good condition body wise.
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Old 09-24-2019, 11:07 AM   #8
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Any thoughts on this

Has anyone had experience with bent valves and replacing head, doing timing chain and bottom end being ok? See my earlier post.

Reason I ask is I understand to pull the motor, I have to drop the subframe which will be a royal PITA aside from cost of replacement motor. My preference (of course) is to replace the damaged head and button up with new chain kit, hardware , gaskets etc. and hope for the best (unless that is totally foolish).

Thoughts??
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Old 09-24-2019, 01:49 PM   #9
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If you are planning to keep the car, get the crate long block. You dont have to remove subframe. The sealer is hard to tell because you can get the same type of sealer from GM and especially if a GM shop had it apart for anything. Maybe get the VIN run to see if it had warranty work done? Any GM dealer could do that.

By the looks of the pics, I'd assume you have metal floating around the engine and it might come back to haunt you after in terms of cam or bottom end bearing damage or possibly scored cylinder walls causing oil consumption? The metal went somewhere.

If you plan on selling the car after the repair, then go with just repairing whats affected and cross your fingers on start up.

With the amount of work you put into it so far and the amount of money you're investing on it by keeping your fingers crossed, its a risk that might bite you in the ass either on start up or your first hard pull if not earlier.

Its too big of a job financially and time wise for a "maybe".

Put a new motor in it and take care of it from day one YOUR WAY.

The 3.6 has always been a grenade waiting to blow up. Why half ass it and hope for the best at this point?

Last edited by canadian ss; 09-24-2019 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 03:04 PM   #10
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Thanks for the honest response.

Can I pull this motor out from the top or am I dropping the subframe to drop it from the bottom? If pulling from the top, what am I attaching to on the bad motor and more importantly, on the new motor?

That is the key fact to overcome right now to order the long block.

I only have immediate access to my four post.

Thank you again for your input.
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Old 09-25-2019, 09:08 AM   #11
canadian ss
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You can pull it from the top.

We pull them from underneath on the SUV's because there is no room to do it from the top. The opening is too small.

You might have to find some brackets from the wreckers and make some new holes, make your own brackets or probably get the correct brackets online. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miller-1024...-/232999475899
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Old 09-25-2019, 09:59 AM   #12
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Many thanks

You are awesome. Thanks for this clear response and the link to the brackets.

I am gonna pit a crate motor in this camaro and enjoy it. I really appreciate your support. I will send pics when done.
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:42 AM   #13
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Happy to help a brother out! You can never have too much info! Just remember to pay it forward. And keep us posted with your progress.

Dont forget to do the clutch at the same time.
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Old 09-26-2019, 06:40 AM   #14
petercop
 
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The brackets that you sent pic of from EBay work with GM v6 or chrysler v6?

I was able to buy a used set but will they fit?
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