Has anyone ever seen this before on a block? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

SLOW1SS · 11-19-2018, 02:17 PM

So after doing a heads/cam (3 Bolt Conversion, trunion, Ls7 lifters, melling, etc.) install on a L99 I took the car in to be tuned. The car came in underpowered, and developed what was thought to be a lifter tick. So the tuning stopped we got it home and started the tear down.

As far as we can see, everything looks good springs, rockers, pushrods, cylinders, pistons, flex plate, cam, even the lifters and there is not metal in the oil. After speaking to the tuning shop, we are elimating it being bottom end for now. The tuner thought it could possibly be a collapsed lifter (Delphi lifters are apparently known for this?). So I am changing the lifters to the gm Ls7 performance lifters, double checking the pushrod length when the tool arrives and putting it back together.

I was double checking everything last night and came across this in the lifter valley. I spoke with shop where my parts came from and they said it was unusual, possibly a loose tray. The trays were tight when they came off, but I need to check them for marks again when I get home. That seems to be the only possible thing that could have cause this, but has anyone ever come across this before or know of the cause?

JD555 · 11-19-2018, 03:01 PM

Your killing me. Get that antifreeze out of the bore. I see rust already.

Clarkstar · 11-19-2018, 04:35 PM

Mine had that... I think it was probably flash cleaned up after casting...

X2... clean up them cylinders pronto

Jayjellyfish212 · 11-19-2018, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarkstar

Mine had that... I think it was probably flash cleaned up after casting...

X2... clean up them cylinders pronto

Nailed it! Casting marks for sure.

zz430camaro · 11-19-2018, 04:55 PM

factory clean up, no big deal

JerTM · 11-19-2018, 05:29 PM

I see it on every head I remove. Like said before it's the guy at the factory's lazy attempt at cleaning the flashing from a head.

SLOW1SS · 11-19-2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD555

Your killing me. Get that antifreeze out of the bore. I see rust already.

Thanks for the info and Yea I’ll clean it out tonight before I start putting it back together.

christianchevell · 11-20-2018, 09:49 AM

DIY install is your problem....., the tightening of the pushrods you should have measured at zero lash should be about 1/2 ,2/3, at most 3/4 turn after zero lash..... 1.7 x .048 =about .080 ..that's rocker ratio times the thread pitch distance one turn makes and the amount of preload used on a ls3 lifter is best in the golden zone .045-.060 not to exceed the .070 amount a ls7 uses on the same lifter..with a 1.8 ratio rocker even with its lift of its cam being more from the rocker than the cam and its available higher rev limit of 7k....

The more over lash/preload the more you get typewriter/lifter tick; and especially if being a bone head not doing math as people used to do on here blowing up engines in shorter order as a roller cam will roll way over lashed and people were that stupid that they said oh one turn at .047 or .048 is not enough....;dah....no math required;...and they were already over lashed and adding more...waiting to bottom out the plunger, smash the lifter and its roller to death and kill the cam lobes...……then blame the cam...

And of course since they keep the lifter straight in the basket....new lifters require new baskets …..unless the engine is very low miles and the original lifters used in most cases... But that's a couple thoughts......that and while I was in there I would throw in some better rocker arms supports from Livernois or Lingenfelter.... Good Luck.

And those marks some Dick with sausage fingers and a Dremel cant keep from screwing up things looking for flash where the two parts of the mold fit together and appears to be mildly retarded IMO in his use of the Dremel must be asleep...….or worse a Ford employee in disguise to deliberately try to screw up ls engines as they kick their PIG coyotes butts and they are now using sabotage...……...ROFL....

And the smaller base circle of the cam makes it easier for most cam makers to recommend the right correct length of pushrod but they can vary; especially on the l99 which had two different lifters and different lengths for the AFM lifters along with its solid stem intake valves. Basically the length of the pushrod should be say your using 7.375 on the non afm lifters; well that equates to needing 7.40 pushrods because the base circle to carve out higher lobes requires a usually .050 smaller base circle and that means 1/2 of that is added to the dimensions of the pushrods as the lifter only rides on 1/2 the cam and only 1/2 the difference is applied ……. But all things being right you should always measure because sometimes things are not exactly right.... Anyway that's all IMO stuff but I am old fart who did all his own engines and now has a Brainiac do his because failure is not a option. Stuff gets spendy not your daddies SBC/BBC.... so stuff to think about. Good luck, and BTW I religiously use driven racing oil and do a break in with it and its br30 even for just a cam swap....20-30 minutes just like a new ls engine.... and your engine is made for 5w/30...….and be sure to soak them lifters.

Blakester · 11-21-2018, 08:44 PM

I dont understand the whole counting turns on the pushrod tool thing, wouldnt that be inconsistent and maybe even guessing? Wouldnt it be easier to lengthen the pushrod tool until you get zero lash then measure the length of the adjustable pushrod with good quality calipers and then add the .0X0 for your preload to that and order the pushrods that way?

christianchevell · 11-24-2018, 05:33 PM

Blake you would have the pushrods you took out to compare too also and the amount of turns you made would transfer to length to compare the thing too... which it should be pretty easy you only need like .025 more per pushrod to keep the geometry the same usually...…… Calipers that big $$$$ they are over 7" long and your never going to use the calipers again...…. SO you get the pushrod measurement to the known size of the old pushrod often printed in easy to read lettering on the side if not scraped off/ compare them side by side and then go from there..... not much for turns or math really. Good Luck.

11-19-2018, 02:17 PM	#1
SLOW1SS Drives: Camaro SS Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 60	Has anyone ever seen this before on a block? So after doing a heads/cam (3 Bolt Conversion, trunion, Ls7 lifters, melling, etc.) install on a L99 I took the car in to be tuned. The car came in underpowered, and developed what was thought to be a lifter tick. So the tuning stopped we got it home and started the tear down. As far as we can see, everything looks good springs, rockers, pushrods, cylinders, pistons, flex plate, cam, even the lifters and there is not metal in the oil. After speaking to the tuning shop, we are elimating it being bottom end for now. The tuner thought it could possibly be a collapsed lifter (Delphi lifters are apparently known for this?). So I am changing the lifters to the gm Ls7 performance lifters, double checking the pushrod length when the tool arrives and putting it back together. I was double checking everything last night and came across this in the lifter valley. I spoke with shop where my parts came from and they said it was unusual, possibly a loose tray. The trays were tight when they came off, but I need to check them for marks again when I get home. That seems to be the only possible thing that could have cause this, but has anyone ever come across this before or know of the cause? Attached Images Last edited by SLOW1SS; 11-20-2018 at 10:48 AM.

11-19-2018, 04:35 PM	#3
Clarkstar Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Ixonia wi Posts: 1,456	Mine had that... I think it was probably flash cleaned up after casting... X2... clean up them cylinders pronto __________________ 2013 1le- Katech 416 short block, TSP custom grind cam, LOD intake, cnc heads by F.ED., Nick William's 102mm T.B., CORN fed, Pedders coilovers. Performance street alingnment by Justin at Lake Country Alignment and dyno tune by Late Model Throttle. 603 h.p. 495 ft lbs tq.

11-20-2018, 09:49 AM	#8
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,588 View My Garage	DIY install is your problem....., the tightening of the pushrods you should have measured at zero lash should be about 1/2 ,2/3, at most 3/4 turn after zero lash..... 1.7 x .048 =about .080 ..that's rocker ratio times the thread pitch distance one turn makes and the amount of preload used on a ls3 lifter is best in the golden zone .045-.060 not to exceed the .070 amount a ls7 uses on the same lifter..with a 1.8 ratio rocker even with its lift of its cam being more from the rocker than the cam and its available higher rev limit of 7k.... The more over lash/preload the more you get typewriter/lifter tick; and especially if being a bone head not doing math as people used to do on here blowing up engines in shorter order as a roller cam will roll way over lashed and people were that stupid that they said oh one turn at .047 or .048 is not enough....;dah....no math required;...and they were already over lashed and adding more...waiting to bottom out the plunger, smash the lifter and its roller to death and kill the cam lobes...……then blame the cam... And of course since they keep the lifter straight in the basket....new lifters require new baskets …..unless the engine is very low miles and the original lifters used in most cases... But that's a couple thoughts......that and while I was in there I would throw in some better rocker arms supports from Livernois or Lingenfelter.... Good Luck. And those marks some Dick with sausage fingers and a Dremel cant keep from screwing up things looking for flash where the two parts of the mold fit together and appears to be mildly retarded IMO in his use of the Dremel must be asleep...….or worse a Ford employee in disguise to deliberately try to screw up ls engines as they kick their PIG coyotes butts and they are now using sabotage...……...ROFL.... And the smaller base circle of the cam makes it easier for most cam makers to recommend the right correct length of pushrod but they can vary; especially on the l99 which had two different lifters and different lengths for the AFM lifters along with its solid stem intake valves. Basically the length of the pushrod should be say your using 7.375 on the non afm lifters; well that equates to needing 7.40 pushrods because the base circle to carve out higher lobes requires a usually .050 smaller base circle and that means 1/2 of that is added to the dimensions of the pushrods as the lifter only rides on 1/2 the cam and only 1/2 the difference is applied ……. But all things being right you should always measure because sometimes things are not exactly right.... Anyway that's all IMO stuff but I am old fart who did all his own engines and now has a Brainiac do his because failure is not a option. Stuff gets spendy not your daddies SBC/BBC.... so stuff to think about. Good luck, and BTW I religiously use driven racing oil and do a break in with it and its br30 even for just a cam swap....20-30 minutes just like a new ls engine.... and your engine is made for 5w/30...….and be sure to soak them lifters. __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop Last edited by christianchevell; 11-20-2018 at 10:06 AM.

11-24-2018, 05:33 PM	#10
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,588 View My Garage	Blake you would have the pushrods you took out to compare too also and the amount of turns you made would transfer to length to compare the thing too... which it should be pretty easy you only need like .025 more per pushrod to keep the geometry the same usually...…… Calipers that big $$$$ they are over 7" long and your never going to use the calipers again...…. SO you get the pushrod measurement to the known size of the old pushrod often printed in easy to read lettering on the side if not scraped off/ compare them side by side and then go from there..... not much for turns or math really. Good Luck. __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

11-19-2018, 03:01 PM	#2
JD555 Drives: 2014 2SS RS, 6 sp man Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Marlton, NJ Posts: 461	Your killing me. Get that antifreeze out of the bore. I see rust already.

11-19-2018, 04:55 PM	#5
zz430camaro Drives: 2015 1LE Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,485	factory clean up, no big deal

11-19-2018, 05:29 PM	#6
JerTM Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Utah Posts: 1,941	I see it on every head I remove. Like said before it's the guy at the factory's lazy attempt at cleaning the flashing from a head.

11-21-2018, 08:44 PM	#9
Blakester Drives: 2010 1ss Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Colorado Springs co Posts: 174	I dont understand the whole counting turns on the pushrod tool thing, wouldnt that be inconsistent and maybe even guessing? Wouldnt it be easier to lengthen the pushrod tool until you get zero lash then measure the length of the adjustable pushrod with good quality calipers and then add the .0X0 for your preload to that and order the pushrods that way?