[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Some one posted this question but not sure why it is not here now.



I feel it is counter productive to pump more air and fuel into an engine that is already restricted on the exhaust side.

What we learned here is that the exhaust is alot more restrictive than we first thought.

High exhaust back pressure leads to detonation which means reduced timing and diminished returns of more boost.

Efficiency is the best power you can gain because it will always be consistent across all conditions.

In my professional opinion the Headers and Green cats are a very worthy investment.

Ted.

Thanks Ted, it was me who posted that, but I deleted it after re reading my notes and our prior conversations, sorry about the redundant question.

Our Canadian dollar heading in the wrong direction always makes me think this way haha...

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Exgermanowner

I just wanted to say thanks Ted @ Jannettyracing for taking the time and publishing real world data. Also for not going down the “pulley” route and over spinning the blower since that only generates more heat which kills on a road course across 20-30 min sessions.

I would like to hear your thoughts on cooling. Down the road I’m eyeing the weapon x heat exchanger kit(that has the primary and two aux coolers) along with the intercooler bricks, bypass kit to allow the bricks to flow independently, etc... Anything and everything to improve IAT temps and loss of power due to heat soak across long track sessions.

You are welcome.

The 18 ZL-1 1LE has the quickest recovery and lowest IAT in relation to Ambient I have ever seen on a PD blower.

If you are not spinning the blower faster I see no reason to change out heat exchangers, and bigger is not always better.

What you gain in recovery you may lose in cooling the radiator and other coolers, due to restricted air flow from the 3 times thicker core.

The thicker the core the slower the air moves through it blocking the other coolers.

GM engineered this cooling pack to be most efficient to cool every cooler with what available air is coming through the grills.

Ted.

[Indyblue98]

I want to thank you for the last 6+ years of keeping my 2012 SS Running strong.
Think I'm on my 5th or 6th evolution of mods and you've tuned for each update.


Back to the Current LT4 ZL1


From the video link it seems that 80+ ft/lbs torque is lost when using 91-93 octane .

Is there a usable set of upgrades/tune for those of us who don't have access or are just not willing to pay the price for the 100 octane fuel?
Or is that the reason behind the Flex fuel upgrade ?

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Exgermanowner

I just wanted to say thanks Ted @ Jannettyracing for taking the time and publishing real world data. Also for not going down the “pulley” route and over spinning the blower since that only generates more heat which kills on a road course across 20-30 min sessions.

I would like to hear your thoughts on cooling. Down the road I’m eyeing the weapon x heat exchanger kit(that has the primary and two aux coolers) along with the intercooler bricks, bypass kit to allow the bricks to flow independently, etc... Anything and everything to improve IAT temps and loss of power due to heat soak across long track sessions.

I’m with you in that one, but I’d still like to see how much more power is produced after adding the 9% and 15% pulley and how much the boost changes after it dropped a half lbs with the addition of the headers especially considering it’s already gained about 60whp (not counting E fuel) without a pulley.

My tracking conditions will be in the mid to high 70 degree temps so I’m hoping to get away with a 9% pulley seeing as how it’s so much more cost effective.

[staples87]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

You are welcome.

The 18 ZL-1 1LE has the quickest recovery and lowest IAT in relation to Ambient I have ever seen on a PD blower.

If you are not spinning the blower faster I see no reason to change out heat exchangers, and bigger is not always better.

What you gain in recovery you may lose in cooling the radiator and other coolers, due to restricted air flow from the 3 times thicker core.

The thicker the core the slower the air moves through it blocking the other coolers.

GM engineered this cooling pack to be most efficient to cool every cooler with what available air is coming through the grills.

Ted.

I'm curious as to IAT's in real world conditions. Obviously on the Dyno the LT4 heatsoak is pulling a decent amount of timing after a couple runs, but on the street is it enough cool air to allow us to spin the stock blower a little faster, say running a 9% pulley? There's no point in running more boost when you're going to be making the same amount of power (or less) with the ECU pulling power from the charger temps. Is a 9% pulley a waste of time with the stock heat exchangers? This is in addition to the other bolts ons and porting (supercharger port, 103mm TB, Intake, headers).

[WEAPON-X]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

You are welcome.

The 18 ZL-1 1LE has the quickest recovery and lowest IAT in relation to Ambient I have ever seen on a PD blower.

If you are not spinning the blower faster I see no reason to change out heat exchangers, and bigger is not always better.

What you gain in recovery you may lose in cooling the radiator and other coolers, due to restricted air flow from the 3 times thicker core.

The thicker the core the slower the air moves through it blocking the other coolers.

GM engineered this cooling pack to be most efficient to cool every cooler with what available air is coming through the grills.

Ted.

Ted, I've seen you do a lot of good service over the years; however, this information isn't accurate. I'm not one for vendor drama as we have over 100 vendors worldwide and it's never good for business so don't take me wrong, but I have seen you questioning a lot of our products lately without any factual testing.

I was an engineer at GM and I can tell you for a fact that there are trade offs as the cheapest mfgr who can provide the product they desire gets the contract most of the time. There is an ugly history behind the LT4 engine's supercharger as it was originally designed by Eaton as a 1640 and barely made the HP levels it was targeting. Due to being too far down the rabbit hole, it was stretched to a 1740 and pushed out into production. That is one reason the Z06 suffered from heat soak, but GM had time to address this the following year with the LT4 ZL1 and CTS V; however that doesn't mean that factory coolers are God's gift. They are vastly superior to the previous LSA's cooler; however, are not even in the same league as our coolers. Our heat exchangers since the LSA engines have been the cream of the crop for years and performance shops around the world continue to order them because they make power.

You are basically speculating that there is NO benefit to upgrading any cooler on a stock boost car? You're running 10 psi from a high strung supercharger in a hot engine bay that does not rely on factual IAT2 values, but calculated values which do not relay the necessary info to make the best power. IAT is not the only relevant PID since the spark table uses a calculated MAT value with a combination of a multitude of values in the algorithm including ECT, Cyl Airmass (another calculated value) etc. The passenger side cooler is tied to the radiator, which goes into the MAT calculation. The center HX and the driver side HX are tied to the supercharger. ALL of which need addressed.

Your statement about 3 times as thick apparently assumes that everything is the same, but this shows me that you don't really understand the nature of a heat exchanger's design. So, let me help educate you here. All of that info is listed in detail here:
https://weaponxmotorsports.com/produ...nt=37717913425

• Fin Density - which is the frontal area of the fins by square area which can be increased to allow airflow through the hx more easily when using thicker cores and by DESIGN you want to slow the air down somewhat and make it more turbulent as this is HOW heat is picked up from the coolant tubes carrying the fluid through it.
• Coolant Tubing - the tubes passing horizontally or vertically through the HX, which we can control the speed of the coolant through the tube by using larger tubes to slow the fluid down as it passes through.
• Core Thickness - determined by the coolant tubing passing through it as well as space around it.
• End Tanks - we can store more fluid and also size the inlets/outlets appropriately if one needs to speed up the fluid in a system with more volume

These were carefully engineered and I specialized in thermodynamic engineering. Not only do we see improved temps during wide open throttle pulls, but also drastically increased recovery times, which has over 2 years of RAVE reviews from factual data with plenty of performance shops across the country including Vengeance, CPR, ARS, etc.

YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY MAKE MORE POWER AND IMPROVE RECOVERY TIME IN BACK TO BACK PULLS, whether stock boost or big boost applications.

Next time we have a client up in your area, I'll send him your way for install/tuning so you can see first hand!

[JANNETTYRACING]

Thank you for your response it helps us all learn, especially me LOL.

I will be the first one to admit I don't know everything but I do draw on thousands of data logs per year on the dyno, on the street and on the track as I am an avid road course driver and professional tuner so I get to see stuff most people never will.

I am not questioning your products in fact I have no experience with your products so I would never comment on them specifically.

My statements are a general observation.

My experience is drawn from other brands, I had no intention of singling you out or including you in this and I apologize it it was taken that way.

We should get together and have a pow wow so I can learn about what you have to offer and add to my product offerings.

Happy new year, I will be back at it next year.

Ted.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Indyblue98

I want to thank you for the last 6+ years of keeping my 2012 SS Running strong.
Think I'm on my 5th or 6th evolution of mods and you've tuned for each update.


Back to the Current LT4 ZL1


From the video link it seems that 80+ ft/lbs torque is lost when using 91-93 octane .

Is there a usable set of upgrades/tune for those of us who don't have access or are just not willing to pay the price for the 100 octane fuel?
Or is that the reason behind the Flex fuel upgrade ?

My pleasure, thank you for your business.

Yes the tuning, Rotofab, LT headers w cats and x pipe will benefit you on 93 as well.

You will start and finish lower than my numbers but the delta gains I would expect to be the same.

If you have E-fuels in your area it is a no brainer this engine loves octane.

Ted.

[Markoz28]

This is one of the best threads. Not only are we able to see one's experience on things but the understanding behind it.

[big dave]

Ted, excellent thread! I for one am all about making more power but, I want the other driveline components to live as long as possible. At what point is it necessary to start messing with the TCM? I know that torque management is a killer in my car at stock power levels, it hurts et dramatically. What will a good TCM tune do?

[Alain]

I love this thread !!!!! Watching two top speed shops exchange thoughts without bashing !!!!

And we all benefit from the knowledge.

[Intimidator]

Originally Posted by Alain

I love this thread !!!!! Watching two top speed shops exchange thoughts without bashing !!!!

And we all benefit from the knowledge.

Yes we do!

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Markoz28

This is one of the best threads. Not only are we able to see one's experience on things but the understanding behind it.

Couldn’t agree more, all those hours reading confusing forum posts and different opinions are being clarified in only a few short minutes!

[WEAPON-X]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Thank you for your response it helps us all learn, especially me LOL.

I will be the first one to admit I don't know everything but I do draw on thousands of data logs per year on the dyno, on the street and on the track as I am an avid road course driver and professional tuner so I get to see stuff most people never will.

I am not questioning your products in fact I have no experience with your products so I would never comment on them specifically.

My statements are a general observation.

My experience is drawn from other brands, I had no intention of singling you out or including you in this and I apologize it it was taken that way.

We should get together and have a pow wow so I can learn about what you have to offer and add to my product offerings.

Happy new year, I will be back at it next year.

Ted.

Thanks Ted, like you and everyone else these days with 20 ways to reach out to someone LOL, my time is limited doing a dozen things at once lol so I hope I didn't come off crass, but this is certainly one thing I am passionate about. We have spoken on the phone in the past a time or two. My AWD Mustang dyno I bought 2 years ago has more I/Os than any other they'd made in the world, so we do some very in depth testing and would be happy to collab on something!

You can see here how much trouble the stock cooling system had trying to keep up with a 9% pulley and 15% pulley. With our Boost Freeze Chiller kit, we picked up major gains and got an exta 4* of timing into it at 1.5 PSI less boost due to the dense air, making close to 700whp with a 15% pulley which is cam territory!

https://weaponxmotorsports.com/blogs...th-a-15-pulley


Done with my shameless plug lmao and back to the OP of course