Repear question re: warranty and GM parts

[Fogey]

I know this has been discussed ad infinitum but I have not found a really definitive answer.
Question: If I have GM parts installed by the dealer, (shorty pipes, air box, cat back exhausrt etc.) does that void the factory warranty? I would like to have a few things done before I evn take official deliverry but not if the warranty is voided. If it's going to be voided thern I'll either not do it or go to aftermarket.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

What did the dealer say? If they tell you it is covered, get that in writing. GM is the one who provides the warranty, not the dealer. If something happens and you have a warranty claim and GM says no(even though dealer said yes) it is not covered then you got a problem.

[Fogey]

Dealer, of course, says no problem but he's not speaking for GM. To make things worse, I am buying the car from a dealer about 60 miles away to save sales tax. So the guy I will go to for service can probably tell me to stuff it. Just for the hell of it, I'm going to call GM tomorrow and start working my way up the chain of command.. I'm pretty good at that

[PQ]

If not, then you got it. AFTERMARKET. Much better performance wise.

[ljstella]

Just so you know though... I believe GM still hasn't launched the airbox. I think there were certification or supplier issues or something...

[Russell James]

The answer is in the warranty booklet. You could stop at the dealer and ask them to copy the page with the section titled "what is not covered"

In that section it will say - damage caused by modifications/alterations...

So basically if you add something and that something is an aftermarket part that then causes damage, repairing that damage is not covered.

The only GM Performance Parts accessory right now is the exhaust. So if you put that on, no affect on the warranty.

Anything else, and if that anything else causes a problem, repairing that problem would not be covered.

Don't waste your time calling a toll free number in India or God knows what country this week. Unless you would like a script read to you from the warranty book which you can get at any Chevy dealer. Just ask if you can borrow a 2010 warranty book and copy that page on "what is not covered". All the Chevy warranty books are the same, you don't even need a Camaro. And you will have the only correct answer to your questions right in your hands.

[balthazar]

Completely different state from me I know, but be careful with dodging sales tax. Here in MO they WILL find you, and they do NOT screw around when they catch you.

Hell hath no fury like a taxman scorned.

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Fogey

I am buying the car from a dealer about 60 miles away to save sales tax.

FYI for automobiles you pay the sales tax according to your registered address, not where the car was purchased. You won't save a dime doing this.

And to answer your question, only GMPP (GM Performance Parts) are covered by the factory warranty. At this time the only GMPP part made for the Camaro is an axle back exhaust at double the price of what a good aftermarket axle back costs.

[Apex Paul]

Dealers cannot void your warranty when you replace parts on your car with either OEM parts or aftermarket parts UNLESS they provide those parts free of charge.

Back in the 70's warranty writers were taking advantage of consumers by claiming that when the consumer put a part on their washing machine/toaster oven/car that was not made by the manufacturer that their warranty was now voided. Since that created a parts monopoly for the item manufacturer, lawmakers passed a law that says that the warranty writer can't just void your warranty, except for those that provide their parts free of charge. To void a warranty, they must prove that the part you changed actually caused the damage/problem.

They can't just willy-nilly void your warranty.

This is a very misunderstood area among those who wish to modify their cars because so much misinformation is out there, not to mention dealers that will still try to void your warranty if you add aftermarket parts.

The reason they try is $$$. If they have to do warranty work, they make less money from the manufacturer than if you are paying them out of your pocket. It's just like insurance and your doctor; When your doctor submits a claim for an office visit to your health insurance he bills them for $85 and they pay him $52 . When you have no insurance he bills you $85 and you pay $85 for the same visit.

More info can be found here

[mjorgensen]

Maybe in a perfect world your statement would be true. The fact is that the dealer answers to the warranty center and if there is any question they send a Rep out to look it over. They can basically void anything in the power train if there are aftermarket parts and YOU get to argue with them over what was the cause of the failure.

They hope that they will wear you down with legal and you will just eat it because that is what happens if you take it to court. I see it all the time. What they cannot do is void ANY other part of your warranty such as electrical, A/C, etc. This is especially true if you purchase an extended warranty. It says right in the small print that they can refuse coverage if ANY non factory parts are used on the car. They don't even give the language that it has to be the cause lol.

Originally Posted by Apex Paul

Dealers cannot void your warranty when you replace parts on your car with either OEM parts or aftermarket parts UNLESS they provide those parts free of charge.

Back in the 70's warranty writers were taking advantage of consumers by claiming that when the consumer put a part on their washing machine/toaster oven/car that was not made by the manufacturer that their warranty was now voided. Since that created a parts monopoly for the item manufacturer, lawmakers passed a law that says that the warranty writer can't just void your warranty, except for those that provide their parts free of charge. To void a warranty, they must prove that the part you changed actually caused the damage/problem.

They can't just willy-nilly void your warranty.

This is a very misunderstood area among those who wish to modify their cars because so much misinformation is out there, not to mention dealers that will still try to void your warranty if you add aftermarket parts.

The reason they try is $$$. If they have to do warranty work, they make less money from the manufacturer than if you are paying them out of your pocket. It's just like insurance and your doctor; When your doctor submits a claim for an office visit to your health insurance he bills them for $85 and they pay him $52 . When you have no insurance he bills you $85 and you pay $85 for the same visit.

More info can be found here

[Apex Paul]

Originally Posted by mjorgensen

It says right in the small print that they can refuse coverage if ANY non factory parts are used on the car. They don't even give the language that it has to be the cause lol.

It doesn't matter if they put in their fine print or not. The consumer protection laws trump their warranty.

I agree with you that they would like to try to wear you down. For a few bucks you can file a small claims case against them. It's worth a shot, in my opinion, especially since the law specifically puts the burden of proof on the warranty guarantor. If you go to small claims court with a little research ahead of you I think you will find a judge to be sympathetic to you if you have already tried to resolve the issue with the dealer within the limits of the warranty protection law. I would especially think this would apply when you can show that the manufacturers themselves sell and install similar products (headers, air box, cat-back). I think they would have a tough time convincing a judge that their brand of intakes are magically wonderful for your car while all others are damaging.

I'm not saying that you can't get your warranty voided by installing aftermarket parts, because if those parts cause a failure then the warranty can certainly be voided. But, it can't be deemed void just for installing the parts and then having an issue.

If more consumers would take a stand, more dealers would stop trying to void warranties at their discretion, rather than voiding them whenever there is real cause. They do it now (void warranties) because it makes financial sense to do so. If they had to go to small claims court to defend every warranty claim for aftermarket parts they would change their approach.

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Apex Paul

It doesn't matter if they put in their fine print or not. The consumer protection laws trump their warranty.

I agree with you that they would like to try to wear you down. For a few bucks you can file a small claims case against them. It's worth a shot, in my opinion, especially since the law specifically puts the burden of proof on the warranty guarantor. If you go to small claims court with a little research ahead of you I think you will find a judge to be sympathetic to you if you have already tried to resolve the issue with the dealer within the limits of the warranty protection law. I would especially think this would apply when you can show that the manufacturers themselves sell and install similar products (headers, air box, cat-back). I think they would have a tough time convincing a judge that their brand of intakes are magically wonderful for your car while all others are damaging.

I'm not saying that you can't get your warranty voided by installing aftermarket parts, because if those parts cause a failure then the warranty can certainly be voided. But, it can't be deemed void just for installing the parts and then having an issue.

If more consumers would take a stand, more dealers would stop trying to void warranties at their discretion, rather than voiding them whenever there is real cause. They do it now (void warranties) because it makes financial sense to do so. If they had to go to small claims court to defend every warranty claim for aftermarket parts they would change their approach.

I've seen a lot of people try to take this to court with different manufacturers and no one has won. The Magnuson–Moss act is a load of crap and the only cases in which it was be enforced is where the manufacturer refused to warranty an unaffiliated part (like one person put in a cam and his windows stopped working a few months later). GM and other manufacturers have a LOT of data and a LOT or proof that aftermarket products can cause premature failure and causes more stress on the engine then designed. In a court of law, it then falls upon YOU to prove their data is incorrect, up to YOU to prove that YOUR installer did not make a 1 in a thousand mistake and that your part did not cause the failure.

[slick rick]

Originally Posted by Fogey

I am buying the car from a dealer about 60 miles away to save sales tax.

I thought the sales tax was based on where you plan to register the car and not the county you buy it in?

[Apex Paul]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

I've seen a lot of people try to take this to court with different manufacturers and no one has won. The Magnuson–Moss act is a load of crap and the only cases in which it was be enforced is where the manufacturer refused to warranty an unaffiliated part (like one person put in a cam and his windows stopped working a few months later). GM and other manufacturers have a LOT of data and a LOT or proof that aftermarket products can cause premature failure and causes more stress on the engine then designed. In a court of law, it then falls upon YOU to prove their data is incorrect, up to YOU to prove that YOUR installer did not make a 1 in a thousand mistake and that your part did not cause the failure.

We sir, shall have to disagree.

You have no need to refute their data on aftermarket parts because it is not relevant. The only part that is relevant is the one in the car that is having the problem. That sort of data would be stricken before you ever got into a small claims court, provided you understand the process of discovery.

The law is very clear, and case law has been decided that makes it very easy to win in court when you are in the right.