[ShizzySupra]

Magnuson 2300R will probably match or beat the EForce 2650's....

Maggie TVS2650 is in a different ball park.

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

We are running the full Lingenfelter fuel system on Mike Swanson's 6th gen, we were at 896RWHP on E85 and a touch of meth on a 7.8mm lift cam fuel lobe. We'll be running the car again this week to push it over 900RWHP.

6.5mm is a 20% lobe
7.8mm is a 32% lobe
8.2mm is probably the 38% lobe - I haven't run one, but I know they are testing.

Only reason anyone is running the Edelbrock 2650 is because the Maggie isn't released yet. The Maggie TVS2650R has significantly higher flow capacity and better cooling.
The 2.9 isn't even on the same planet as the 2650s, the 2.9 will come up about 200-300 HP short of the peak capacity of the TVS2650R.

The Magnum DI TVS2650R on the Speed Engineering corvette hit the rollers last week, first pull (no meth) made 878RWHP @ 6300 RPM on a stock displacement LT4 and Katech fuel system (dual LT4 high pressure pumps). Hoping to run it at the track this weekend.

[Drsagacity]

BTW the reason I'm going this route is because all the whipple or maggi builds I'm seeing them spend large amount for cooling or having to run meth! The 2 eforce builds are in the 800s with no meth..

I missed this comment, but I will easily run into the 800’s with no alky if I add the lingenfelter or FIC injectors.

I don’t mix e85 today, just pump and go (with the LT4 fuel system and the voltage booster). My current setup with tires should be good to get the big fat 2SS Convertible into the 9’s...with no alky and no mixing with the lil Maggie. Once I get the 9 sec slip, my go fast mods are done

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

Just wanted to comment really quick as I am one of the "big" Maggie builds.

The larger Eforce builds have never ran at the track. Not a single 2650 EForce car has any publicly released data. IAT's are a real thing. I added Stage 2 Intercoolers, Meth, and Cordes Front expansion tank because I run in real world conditions: back to back pulls, 85+ degree weather etc.

The Eforce builds have all been fancy in house builds with great dyno numbers but no track trap speeds to back it up. 4100lbs, 86 degrees, 145mph... Maggie's have backed it up.

Not trying to discourage your build and I wish you the best of luck but I truly wish the community would look at the total picture of a build vs just a dyno.

Also our other ZL1 has a Whipple with 0 meth and traps 142 full weight+ in 5200DA.

8.2mm is 44% on the fuel lobe..

I could care less about 1/4 mile times. Leaving my faith up to a tire sticking or not to determine how fast my car is, is not my cup of tee, or better yet complaining that my side of the track was prepped better or not or had more grip doesn't prove a thing. If you need a 2 step, trans brake, slicks, or an automatic transmission to get those times good for you but that doesn't mean that its the better blower, not this time maybe in the LS setups i will agree but not now..

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

8.2mm is 44% on the fuel lobe..

I could care less about 1/4 mile times. Leaving my faith up to a tire sticking or not to determine how fast my car is, is not my cup of tee, or better yet complaining that my side of the track was prepped better or not or had more grip doesn't prove a thing. If you need a 2 step, trans brake, slicks, or an automatic transmission to get those times good for you but that doesn't mean that its the better blower, not this time maybe in the LS setups i will agree but not now..

That's an interesting theory.

If you are talking about a single trip to the track, you are right, a sample of 1 proves nothing, but as the sample size increases, your logic is really flawed.

Over a large enough sample size the variables you described disappear.

My guess is, if you have a couple solutions like Procharger and Maggie delivering consistently at the track and another option that is unproven or simply doesn't deliver when they show up at the track...it may be difficult to get a reasonable sample (especially when in previous iterations performance was lacking).

Bottom line is, if the Eforce blower sells, there will be people with that blower showing up at the track and the real results will come out...it will become really apparent if the dyno results aren't supported by real world performance. If the results are poor, there is always room for a cheaper blower setup. . .that can compete on the low-end with the stock LT4 blower. I would think that's a tough sell because on the low end, the LT4 setup is pretty spectacular.

Then again, maybe I am wrong and the market will simply make decisions based on dyno numbers.

[ramairroughneck]

I don’t see how anyone could know one setup is better unless they use different blowers on their car with all the exact supporting parts which ain’t gonna happen. If someone runs a 2300r 416 stroker on ignite 114 race fuel, a crank pulley so big that you have to remove the swaybar, meth injection, and ported heads it’s clearly gonna be faster than another car with stock throttle body, cubes, heads, no meth or race fuel etc. The only way you could know one was better would be if you ran the same setup with a different type of blower and used the same supporting cast. Really once you get to 1000+ horsepower blowers so many other factors go into making a car perform. Your part of a small group if your pushing these blowers to their max potential. Maybe your the only one pushing that hard. I feel like if a ported 1.7 blower can make 750+ rwhp and run 9.4 @ 144 then clearly there’s enough potential in all the aftermarket blowers to make more steam than the drivetrain could ever handle. All the time I see the E-Force, Whipple, Procharger, and LT4 bashing by the Magnacharger guys but really is their any point in telling someone not to go that route when the average person could never afford to utilize the few ponies one system could make over another? Should a person pay a lot more for a Magnacharger when these other systems can squeeze out a 1000 horsepower for less and theoretically run cooler?

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by ramairroughneck

I don’t see how anyone could know one setup is better unless they use different blowers on their car with all the exact supporting parts which ain’t gonna happen. If someone runs a 2300r 416 stroker on ignite 114 race fuel, a crank pulley so big that you have to remove the swaybar, meth injection, and ported heads it’s clearly gonna be faster than another car with stock throttle body, cubes, heads, no meth or race fuel etc. The only way you could know one was better would be if you ran the same setup with a different type of blower and used the same supporting cast. Really once you get to 1000+ horsepower blowers so many other factors go into making a car perform. Your part of a small group if your pushing these blowers to their max potential. Maybe your the only one pushing that hard. I feel like if a ported 1.7 blower can make 750+ rwhp and run 9.4 @ 144 then clearly there’s enough potential in all the aftermarket blowers to make more steam than the drivetrain could ever handle. All the time I see the E-Force, Whipple, Procharger, and LT4 bashing by the Magnacharger guys but really is their any point in telling someone not to go that route when the average person could never afford to utilize the few ponies one system could make over another? Should a person pay a lot more for a Magnacharger when these other systems can squeeze out a 1000 horsepower for less and theoretically run cooler?

I don't know why anyone would bash another setup. I would feel the same way about a Maggie setup. It is one thing to get a dyno number and another thing entirely to get the car tweaked for performance beyond a single gear with no shifting...for real performance. If I was only interested in a dyno number, we definitely could have made changes to get another 20-30whp...but that, to me, was pointless.

It's true in a perfect world we would take the same car and swap blowers. However, I was thinking more along the line of average blower applications. As an example, we see that stock cars tend to trap pretty consistently. The same is true, if I look at the Maggie or Procharged cars...let's say stock car running 7-8psi will trap in the 129-130range. Well, if we see another blower that consistently posts slower trap speeds with the same setup...its not as good for that application. The data will be clear when we have enough cars running any given application.

Would anyone argue that in the past, for a fully built application the F1 is the best? That doesn't make the F1 the best for every setup. In fact, of a stock car the P1 would be infinitely better empirically speaking (faster, more torque, etc).

I think the data can and does definitely support a "better" blower, but that has to be in context.

All of the blowers are approximately the same price with the exception of the LT4 blower which is clearly less expensive, so not sure what you are talking about there.

[ShizzySupra]

Who has a ported 1.7 blower only in a full weight Gen6 that ran 9.4?

Not sure where you are drawing your comparisons from but I have stock heads/stock cubes, swaybar, small-ish crank pulley (we dont like excessive crank stress), etc. Kaizenspeed has installed numerous blowers so the data I speak from is real world. Our Whipple build has all the supporting parts and I can tell you the 2.9 vs the 2.3 are very similar. No bashing as both units have their strong points.

Also for Ed, the Redline EForce 2650 build did use meth. Lingenfelter did a one off dyno run on "93 octane" that made 840whp on their build with ported heads, big cam, etc etc. However, again, thats just dyno numbers. That's why I like to see track times and actual IAT data. You can get anything to survive a dyno pull and IAT's won't really be effected too much. Real world conditions though... Either way I wish you the best and it doesn't sound like you will be pushing it too far so I am sure you will be fine.

Not bashing builds just trying to keep it fact based. Meth isn't required for cooling. In fact the base IAT's on a PD blower are only going to change about 10 degrees or so (again actual testing data). Meth will add octane and it will also help with preventing heat soak. Back to back to back to back runs were achievable with the meth.

Originally Posted by ramairroughneck

I don’t see how anyone could know one setup is better unless they use different blowers on their car with all the exact supporting parts which ain’t gonna happen. If someone runs a 2300r 416 stroker on ignite 114 race fuel, a crank pulley so big that you have to remove the swaybar, meth injection, and ported heads it’s clearly gonna be faster than another car with stock throttle body, cubes, heads, no meth or race fuel etc. The only way you could know one was better would be if you ran the same setup with a different type of blower and used the same supporting cast. Really once you get to 1000+ horsepower blowers so many other factors go into making a car perform. Your part of a small group if your pushing these blowers to their max potential. Maybe your the only one pushing that hard. I feel like if a ported 1.7 blower can make 750+ rwhp and run 9.4 @ 144 then clearly there’s enough potential in all the aftermarket blowers to make more steam than the drivetrain could ever handle. All the time I see the E-Force, Whipple, Procharger, and LT4 bashing by the Magnacharger guys but really is their any point in telling someone not to go that route when the average person could never afford to utilize the few ponies one system could make over another? Should a person pay a lot more for a Magnacharger when these other systems can squeeze out a 1000 horsepower for less and theoretically run cooler?

[ramairroughneck]

A Kong ported Z06 ran that time. Sure that’s not a Camaro. You are correct a Camaro has not run that time. It does give some insight into the power that can be made though. I was also wrong when I quoted 750 rwhp. I had to go back and look it up. Kong has made 850. I priced an Eforce 2650 for Black Friday for 6200. The Whipple was 6400. I will be real surprised if the Magnuson 2650 or 2300R is close to that. The 2300 was quite a bit more than either of those systems on Black Friday. I can honestly say I love both your combos Shizzy and Dragcity. I would certainly do all I could running any kind of fuel and mod what the budget would allow. I don’t think you guys realize how many threads you put doubt that’s unwarranted toward other combos.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

That's an interesting theory.

If you are talking about a single trip to the track, you are right, a sample of 1 proves nothing, but as the sample size increases, your logic is really flawed.

Over a large enough sample size the variables you described disappear.

My guess is, if you have a couple solutions like Procharger and Maggie delivering consistently at the track and another option that is unproven or simply doesn't deliver when they show up at the track...it may be difficult to get a reasonable sample (especially when in previous iterations performance was lacking).

Bottom line is, if the Eforce blower sells, there will be people with that blower showing up at the track and the real results will come out...it will become really apparent if the dyno results aren't supported by real world performance. If the results are poor, there is always room for a cheaper blower setup. . .that can compete on the low-end with the stock LT4 blower. I would think that's a tough sell because on the low end, the LT4 setup is pretty spectacular.

Then again, maybe I am wrong and the market will simply make decisions based on dyno numbers.

Agreed but the LS3 eforce blower had a bad reputation and has shops gun to even recommend them..

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

Who has a ported 1.7 blower only in a full weight Gen6 that ran 9.4?

Not sure where you are drawing your comparisons from but I have stock heads/stock cubes, swaybar, small-ish crank pulley (we dont like excessive crank stress), etc. Kaizenspeed has installed numerous blowers so the data I speak from is real world. Our Whipple build has all the supporting parts and I can tell you the 2.9 vs the 2.3 are very similar. No bashing as both units have their strong points.

Also for Ed, the Redline EForce 2650 build did use meth. Lingenfelter did a one off dyno run on "93 octane" that made 840whp on their build with ported heads, big cam, etc etc. However, again, thats just dyno numbers. That's why I like to see track times and actual IAT data. You can get anything to survive a dyno pull and IAT's won't really be effected too much. Real world conditions though... Either way I wish you the best and it doesn't sound like you will be pushing it too far so I am sure you will be fine.

Not bashing builds just trying to keep it fact based. Meth isn't required for cooling. In fact the base IAT's on a PD blower are only going to change about 10 degrees or so (again actual testing data). Meth will add octane and it will also help with preventing heat soak. Back to back to back to back runs were achievable with the meth.

215 247 631 661 121 is hardly big they did it a few times limiting factor being not many blower available yet.

[EDFHOBBIES]

One thing I know is that I asked weapon x, jannetty racing, and another shop because I couldn't believe they made 850 on 93 and 960 plus on e85 with their lobe, hp pump, and In tank pump aswell as heads and a cam.. all shops said if they did it believe them, they know their shit.

I'm interested in the fuel system on 93 it doesn't really affect anything it's a octane problem most likely the a lt4 pump and injectors with a lobe should do but being able to run e85 to almost 1000 and saying there is room left w the 2650 setup is good enough for me. I really don't want to mess with port injection right now.

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

One thing I know is that I asked weapon x, jannetty racing, and another shop because I couldn't believe they made 850 on 93 and 960 plus on e85 with their lobe, hp pump, and In tank pump aswell as heads and a cam.. all shops said if they did it believe them, they know their shit.

I'm interested in the fuel system on 93 it doesn't really affect anything it's a octane problem most likely the a lt4 pump and injectors with a lobe should do but being able to run e85 to almost 1000 and saying there is room left w the 2650 setup is good enough for me. I really don't want to mess with port injection right now.

If we are talking about the LT4, then @Ricco is running 850whp on the ZL1...with 93+Alky with his Whipple. I think that to avoid the injector limitation, 93+Alky gives more headroom.

FWIW- I have had multiple Prochargers (on Corvettes), Vortech on a Mustang and multiple TT's (including my daily driver now). I love all sorts of power adders.

I don't ever want to put doubt about other superchargers. I like to share my personal experience because I have owned multiple options and based on what I have done, Magnuson has been the most enjoyable setup.

If someone is going to spend their hard earned money on a supercharger and if my experience helps someone else feel more make, or feel more confident in their decision, great...my intent is only to offer a personal experience. I am not a professional racer. I don't get discounts from anyone and I don't make money regardless of what other people choose.

For sure I am looking forward to lining up with people that choose differently next summer. I am shooting to become the first convertible to run in the 9's.

[laynlo15]

Whew, what a discussion. I'm just going to see how close I can run to Shizzy next year. Glad I've got axles and drive shaft coming in the near future, then I'm hoping I can keep the rest of the drive train together since I should be getting a new Magnuson 2650 Heart Breaker in a few months.

[ShizzySupra]

Ok I will clarify: its MUCH bigger than my cam. All good. Laynlo gonna go kray kray next year.

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

215 247 631 661 121 is hardly big they did it a few times limiting factor being not many blower available yet.