Tips and tricks after engine work - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

christianchevell · 09-16-2018, 09:06 AM

You first of all say you have domed pistons with also shaved heads and larger than stock cam all three working against PTV clearance.....I would start there and say damn bro hope you clay molded them....and also hope you did not go by the Robert way self install cam thread..dude he had trouble himself and had to ask around about things after he made the install thread.... IN particular the pushrod length and lash/preload part.

SO let me say this; the average I could garner from people doing tear downs was the preload of the stock rockers was usually set around .060 max range which works out right to .045 more of a noise reduction area for preload as the tighter the louder it gets but better for no high rev valve float...but the ls7 with the same lifters is at .070 max preload and its 1.8 ratio rockers and a milder lift cam thanks to the rockers multiplication of the cam lobes for net effective lift.

So you if like many just think you found out the rockers thread pitch equals like .048 inches per turn so you have to go like 1 1/4 turn from zero lash point on that lifter,( full of oil btw), to reach the .060 area...….. your wrong and like others who ate a cam, trashed some trunnions, flattened a roller and blamed it on who ever usually the cam maker..... Here it is I posted this over and over;

the Rockers on your engine act as a FULCRUM when you tighten them you are in effect tightening them down from zero lash as ; .048 thread pitch one turn X (times) 1.7 ratio of the rocker...so in effect about 3/4 a turn from zero lash is right not 1 1/4 with no math which leads to overly tight and bottoming out in the lifter and plunger problems which with a roller and strong engine sometimes take a long time to show up as damage to the top end ….if not worse.

So.... .048x1.7= .0816 for one turn net effective preload many prefer about 1/2 turn for less noise...typewriter sound but at one turn your into more than a ls7 and beyond design and risking it going into any little plunger free travel area no no land inside the lifter. Our engines are strong enough to overcome that and run strong but ….not good and I know back when guys did do 1 1/4 turn for over .1 preload and wondered why is it noisey so much ….hey is this right ….and there was friggin silence online. what like mechanics were online to help in chat...NOT.....

Also even being a old motorhead who has rebuilt many engines I insist on a break in with BR30 driven racing oil which happens on my insistence and lasts 20-30 minutes much like a flat tappet cam at varying RPMS and can be done on a dyno also while tuning.

Sounds like your tune should be good to start with but you may want to get the Monster clutch billet throw out bearing support for the stock slave in . Me I used the best in the NW I could get to do my engine up as failure was not a option and I bought almost all the parts and don't have the tools or garage or this and that to do it right myself..let alone a dyno and GM and HP tuning software....

AND ANYWAY.....LOL Your cam the stage 2 is mainstream not too hard on the valve train not screaming for top end but with those specs is most likely low end torque friendly and able to not cause PTV interference with your set up and its lift and duration. Just some thoughts....good luck. I use BR30 dump it after break in, a whole new motor run the BR30 for 500 more then a couple thousand on some Vr1 high Zddp conventional for the valves and rings and such and then on to the full synthetic LS30 driven racing oil specifically made for our engines built with our oiling system and full of the latest advancements and right sheer, MPAO, etc beyond what ever matches up against it. Sure many just run some regular oil and do OK..... that DEXOS blend is 50/50 and not exactly made specifically for racing use or more demanding applications but can and does get used by most. Of course I would rather go with the one that would let you get the last couple laps in for the championship with zero oil pressure and have no piston ring, bore, bearing wear..... that the guys who make your parts swear by, and racers use. its all on their website Driven racing oil, tech bulletins; updates, articles; testimonials and recommendations...but hey you can take a horse to water...you cant make him order oil from the local auto parts store or JEGS etc..... that's not just on the store shelf.

Unless your at my Baxter auto parts where the BR30 is there because our LS engines they are the new 350 small block for the masses who desire more for their classic ride and they are used to cam break in, and special oil as ZDDP...that's been taken away by the GD EPA...….. Screw all the old engines; and their owners if they don't know that and get good advice and just use a good old conventional oil...most likely they are raping their engine because the EPA worried about CATS being clogged etc...….

Yuppo and BTW they just revised oil formulations again for the tenth friggin time in like two decades to make it more ECO greenie happy wonderful Fartin rainbow magically fuggin delicious. SO those guys can run a two cylinder mini pooper turbo with like -30 W -0 garbage because they can...…

Also many put the front up on ramps to bleed the air out of the coolant system, and your springs....well they are limited wear items to eventually be replaced due to the higher lift and should last over 25k with the abuse they will take no problem but should be looked at after that for lack of strength cause the higher you go its like racers...you change springs like a parade throwing floats candy pile for top fuel etc.... There somewhere online is a break in procedure for a new LS engine for the initial break in don't believe those that say its a roller...your just like swapping cams if you do a new engine; basically they are saying I am stupid ; a Roller takes longer to fail so your good no need to go thinking all that stuff; its miraculous new fangled shizzit just like that Obamacare that saved health care and made our economy flourish ...not that they could spell flourish or use that term....ROFL and forget a break in be stupid...…. stare at your cell phone more like a good little Millennial and walk into traffic spouting the communist manifesto you learned in school......good little Johnny..... And little Johnny don't pay attention to the torque..... only HP matters especially on heavy objects.

Russell James · 09-17-2018, 08:47 AM

The two biggest things with first fire up is to prelube oil pressure, and bleed the cooling system.

Easiest way to prelube is to disable fuel pump and crank several times about 10 seconds at a time. Can verify oil is everywhere by taking a valve cover off after cranking for a while... should be obvious oil has been coming out of the PRs and running off rockers.

Then on first fire up, avoid idling. Idling is what gets coolant air pockets stuck due to low water pump speed. Front raised a bit, rad cap off, start car and hold the RPMs around 1500-1700 ish while a helper keeps topping off the radiator. This may take 5-10 minutes. It will be obvious when the thermostat opens as there will be a sudden rush of flow in the radiator. Keep the r's up and keep topping off until it is overflowing with the thermostat open. Then cap off and set the overflow tank cold level. Keep rechecking rad level and overflow tank after several drives... after it cools off rad should be full, tank at cold mark.

Do not start it cold first time by yourself. Takes two people, one to hold the revs up, one to top off the rad. The service manual describes this method of holding the RPMS up with the rad cap off on first start up. It's the only way that works.

WHAMMO · 09-18-2018, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witt51

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...1&share_type=t

Here is the thread we talked about what's wrong. Russell James explains what happens. They never bled the coolant system and the engine sees its running hot and dumped fuel in during break in/dyno runs. Put too much fuel in the oil and it lost its lubrication properties. The machine shop verified this by what he saw. They also inspected the cam and polished it up and said it was good.

Also my wife made this into a budget build after I spent 10k and the shop had the car 9 months and I only drove it a month or 2. That's big reason I hope nothing goes wrong. She will donate it to Kars for kids.

Also I installed the oil filter already and filled it up like you said.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I just read the thread...man how fuxking bad of a shop you can be to NOT bleed the coolant system. Thats like ultra bad MKay !! Lol...seriously its a shame. And classic BS they tell you its normal to run hot..NOT !!! Alumium LS never ran hot N/A and should not in normal running condition.

Russell James · 09-18-2018, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHAMMO

I just read the thread...man how fuxking bad of a shop you can be to NOT bleed the coolant system. Thats like ultra bad MKay !! Lol...seriously its a shame. And classic BS they tell you its normal to run hot..NOT !!! Alumium LS never ran hot N/A and should not in normal running condition.

I've seen it many times. Usually because it's one person working on a car in a rush, not bleeding it/topping off properly. Then they rush it over to the chassis dyno for tuning and scream it red hot WOT tuning with a big air pocket. With the coolant sensor location on an LS3 being at the top of #1 cyl, if there is a big air pocket there... engine temp being read wrong... tuning way off... the snowball of problems start.

Synner · 09-18-2018, 08:41 AM

Just prelube an engine that has sat for a while, plenty of videos on low dollar DIY solutions to pressurize the whole system. The places selling $250-300 canisters are nuts. Only priming the pump is 10% of the system. A very important 10% but not everything. And yes I completely made 10% up but you get the idea, plenty of bearings and wear surfaces you don't want dry at startup. Assembly lube is also super important to avoid that issue.

09-16-2018, 09:06 AM	#15
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,587 View My Garage	You first of all say you have domed pistons with also shaved heads and larger than stock cam all three working against PTV clearance.....I would start there and say damn bro hope you clay molded them....and also hope you did not go by the Robert way self install cam thread..dude he had trouble himself and had to ask around about things after he made the install thread.... IN particular the pushrod length and lash/preload part. SO let me say this; the average I could garner from people doing tear downs was the preload of the stock rockers was usually set around .060 max range which works out right to .045 more of a noise reduction area for preload as the tighter the louder it gets but better for no high rev valve float...but the ls7 with the same lifters is at .070 max preload and its 1.8 ratio rockers and a milder lift cam thanks to the rockers multiplication of the cam lobes for net effective lift. So you if like many just think you found out the rockers thread pitch equals like .048 inches per turn so you have to go like 1 1/4 turn from zero lash point on that lifter,( full of oil btw), to reach the .060 area...….. your wrong and like others who ate a cam, trashed some trunnions, flattened a roller and blamed it on who ever usually the cam maker..... Here it is I posted this over and over; the Rockers on your engine act as a FULCRUM when you tighten them you are in effect tightening them down from zero lash as ; .048 thread pitch one turn X (times) 1.7 ratio of the rocker...so in effect about 3/4 a turn from zero lash is right not 1 1/4 with no math which leads to overly tight and bottoming out in the lifter and plunger problems which with a roller and strong engine sometimes take a long time to show up as damage to the top end ….if not worse. So.... .048x1.7= .0816 for one turn net effective preload many prefer about 1/2 turn for less noise...typewriter sound but at one turn your into more than a ls7 and beyond design and risking it going into any little plunger free travel area no no land inside the lifter. Our engines are strong enough to overcome that and run strong but ….not good and I know back when guys did do 1 1/4 turn for over .1 preload and wondered why is it noisey so much ….hey is this right ….and there was friggin silence online. what like mechanics were online to help in chat...NOT..... Also even being a old motorhead who has rebuilt many engines I insist on a break in with BR30 driven racing oil which happens on my insistence and lasts 20-30 minutes much like a flat tappet cam at varying RPMS and can be done on a dyno also while tuning. Sounds like your tune should be good to start with but you may want to get the Monster clutch billet throw out bearing support for the stock slave in . Me I used the best in the NW I could get to do my engine up as failure was not a option and I bought almost all the parts and don't have the tools or garage or this and that to do it right myself..let alone a dyno and GM and HP tuning software.... AND ANYWAY.....LOL Your cam the stage 2 is mainstream not too hard on the valve train not screaming for top end but with those specs is most likely low end torque friendly and able to not cause PTV interference with your set up and its lift and duration. Just some thoughts....good luck. I use BR30 dump it after break in, a whole new motor run the BR30 for 500 more then a couple thousand on some Vr1 high Zddp conventional for the valves and rings and such and then on to the full synthetic LS30 driven racing oil specifically made for our engines built with our oiling system and full of the latest advancements and right sheer, MPAO, etc beyond what ever matches up against it. Sure many just run some regular oil and do OK..... that DEXOS blend is 50/50 and not exactly made specifically for racing use or more demanding applications but can and does get used by most. Of course I would rather go with the one that would let you get the last couple laps in for the championship with zero oil pressure and have no piston ring, bore, bearing wear..... that the guys who make your parts swear by, and racers use. its all on their website Driven racing oil, tech bulletins; updates, articles; testimonials and recommendations...but hey you can take a horse to water...you cant make him order oil from the local auto parts store or JEGS etc..... that's not just on the store shelf. Unless your at my Baxter auto parts where the BR30 is there because our LS engines they are the new 350 small block for the masses who desire more for their classic ride and they are used to cam break in, and special oil as ZDDP...that's been taken away by the GD EPA...….. Screw all the old engines; and their owners if they don't know that and get good advice and just use a good old conventional oil...most likely they are raping their engine because the EPA worried about CATS being clogged etc...…. Yuppo and BTW they just revised oil formulations again for the tenth friggin time in like two decades to make it more ECO greenie happy wonderful Fartin rainbow magically fuggin delicious. SO those guys can run a two cylinder mini pooper turbo with like -30 W -0 garbage because they can...… Also many put the front up on ramps to bleed the air out of the coolant system, and your springs....well they are limited wear items to eventually be replaced due to the higher lift and should last over 25k with the abuse they will take no problem but should be looked at after that for lack of strength cause the higher you go its like racers...you change springs like a parade throwing floats candy pile for top fuel etc.... There somewhere online is a break in procedure for a new LS engine for the initial break in don't believe those that say its a roller...your just like swapping cams if you do a new engine; basically they are saying I am stupid ; a Roller takes longer to fail so your good no need to go thinking all that stuff; its miraculous new fangled shizzit just like that Obamacare that saved health care and made our economy flourish ...not that they could spell flourish or use that term....ROFL and forget a break in be stupid...…. stare at your cell phone more like a good little Millennial and walk into traffic spouting the communist manifesto you learned in school......good little Johnny..... And little Johnny don't pay attention to the torque..... only HP matters especially on heavy objects. __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop Last edited by christianchevell; 09-18-2018 at 02:18 PM.

09-17-2018, 08:47 AM	#16
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	The two biggest things with first fire up is to prelube oil pressure, and bleed the cooling system. Easiest way to prelube is to disable fuel pump and crank several times about 10 seconds at a time. Can verify oil is everywhere by taking a valve cover off after cranking for a while... should be obvious oil has been coming out of the PRs and running off rockers. Then on first fire up, avoid idling. Idling is what gets coolant air pockets stuck due to low water pump speed. Front raised a bit, rad cap off, start car and hold the RPMs around 1500-1700 ish while a helper keeps topping off the radiator. This may take 5-10 minutes. It will be obvious when the thermostat opens as there will be a sudden rush of flow in the radiator. Keep the r's up and keep topping off until it is overflowing with the thermostat open. Then cap off and set the overflow tank cold level. Keep rechecking rad level and overflow tank after several drives... after it cools off rad should be full, tank at cold mark. Do not start it cold first time by yourself. Takes two people, one to hold the revs up, one to top off the rad. The service manual describes this method of holding the RPMS up with the rad cap off on first start up. It's the only way that works.

09-18-2018, 08:41 AM	#19
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,544	Just prelube an engine that has sat for a while, plenty of videos on low dollar DIY solutions to pressurize the whole system. The places selling $250-300 canisters are nuts. Only priming the pump is 10% of the system. A very important 10% but not everything. And yes I completely made 10% up but you get the idea, plenty of bearings and wear surfaces you don't want dry at startup. Assembly lube is also super important to avoid that issue.