New to the 1LE

[kcandiotti400]

Okay, so got my second proper autocross done, first on the new tires and here are some thoughts. Also, just to note, I did not install the rear bar yet. I wanted to see how these tires would perform.

So, the course was a parking lot, a little dirty (loose gravel) but a seemingly otherwise grippy surface. It was a long track with some spots where almost 60 mph could be reached. There were some short slaloms but mostly a lot of imbalanced braking zones and places where you could get fooled into hanging the car out too wide. Overall, I finished second in class to a 2011 BMW M3 by half a second. I was pacing a lap .5 a second faster but botched the final turn. The BMW had a low car number so I presume it was a driven by a skilled driver who has been with this club before.

At the start, I put all four tires at 44 lbs, ambient temperature was about 75 degrees, partly cloudy.

First run I did slowly just to get a feel for the track, left it in first with traction control on. After the first run which was literally the first time driving on these tires (even the stickers were still on them) the car felt really good running 58.2 seconds. I checked the tire temps and somewhat to my surprise the outside edge of all four tires was about 5-10 degrees hotter than the middle or inside edge. I say this is surprising because I had the dealership go with the Apex recommended alignment posted earlier in this thread so I was expecting the aggressive camber to even the temps out more.

Second run I tried to run in first gear and topped out on the back half. When I shifted to second I got massive wheel spin which caught me by surprise. Of course, with lighter weight wheels I should have anticipated this but wasn't thinking ahead. Ran a 56.6. Outer edge temps were now about 20 degrees hotter than middle and inside.

Third run I just tried to tighten up in some places and cone'd this run but got a 55.6+1. Tire temps on the front were stable at O 116 M 90 I 80, right rear was O 115 M 120 I 115 left rear was O 100 M 90 I 85. At this point because of the hot center of the right rear I checked pressure and found it had risen to 49lbs. I dropped this back down to 44.

Fourth run was just improving on some key sections and ran a clean 55.5. Right rear was now O 130 M 120 I 110. All other temps were more or less stable.

Fifth run was the best run with a 54.5 with some focus on a hard start and tightening up my lines. Perfect grip, basically same tire temps.

My six and seventh runs were both 55.6's with similar tire temps but I kept losing the back end. It dawned on me a little while later that I stopped checking air pressures after my good run. This is the second event where following my best time all subsequent times were slower. I think the reason why is because I stopped checking my tire pressures, due to driving and braking the air pressures went unchecked and therefore even though the temps suggested everything was okay .. during the run the center was bulging and causing a loss in traction. The next event is this weekend so I think I might start off with 42lbs, monitor temps, and regardless of temps not let the tires get past 44lbs.

If anyone else has any experience with pressures that work for them please share. My dialing in experience all comes from 4wd and fwd cars so its a new learning process for me.

Best Run:
https://youtu.be/g7YSToPbf0g

Playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...tWq99xCXKQlcrG

[PapaKlutch]

Your tire pressure too high. Most AutoX Camaros run closer to 30 pounds when tires are warm. I start mine at 28 when I leave the house and monitor the pressure after runs. I would suggest you start much closer to 30 next time out.

You'll find a lot of info on the AutoX section here.

Lots of build journals too that cover AutoX stuff, as well.

[kcandiotti400]

Originally Posted by PapaKlutch

Your tire pressure too high....

Thanks as always, I'll give your set up a shot.

[CamaroDreams76]

If you ditched the MP4S and went with the bridgestone RE-71R, you would have taken 1st. Good job tho

When I did autox I had the Pilot Super Sports (running CAM-C) I would run those at 35 PSI. I didn't adjust pressure or check temps or anything but took 1st against a 15 GT track pack with a bunch of suspension mods and 200 tread wear tires.

At that time I didnt have the JPSS rear bar installed. I only have trailing arms, toe links and solid subframe bushings.

[Trawz]

Papa is right on. Tire pressures are too high.

I have yet to run AutoX in mine, but for the road course, I also run 30psi when hot on my Nitto Invo's (waiting on funds for a set of race wheels for some dedicated tires).

Try marking the side of your tires with a chalk line, going from the outer most tread block to the sidewall.
If you still have chalk on your tread after your run, your tire pressures are too high. I used that when I ran my last car in AutoX.

[kcandiotti400]

Originally Posted by CamaroDreams76

If you ditched the MP4S and went with the bridgestone RE-71R, you would have taken 1st...

Yes, I believe in the power of the RE's. I co-drive an Audi TT with a buddy of mine as well and we have them on that car and they are amazing. When I bought the wheels I got a discount from APEX on the MP4S so I decided to give them a shot but once these are cashed I'll make the move to Bridgestones.

[kcandiotti400]

Originally Posted by Trawz

Papa is right on. Tire pressures are too high.

Yeah, I ran these higher pressures at Lime Rock as well at their Autocross mini road course and after getting the tires heated up I had no grip at all. It sounds like starting the day off at around 28-30 PSI is going to be the move.

Also, noted on the chalk, I was thinking about that last night ... its like tire tuning 101 all over again with this beast haha.

[kcandiotti400]

Hey Guys, just another update from this weekend's autocross.

So, I got to the event super early with the intention of switching out the rear sway bar. Got the rear up on jackstands, removed the two rubber exhaust hangers and with the passenger side jacked up a little higher than the driver's side I was able to shimmy it out. Knowing I was running tight on time I pushed the new bar through and started bolting everything together. At first I noticed that the bar was rubbing on the subframe but once the car settled on the ground there was about a quarter inch of clearance. Tech announced it was open and I still had to add my numbers and change the front tires so I rushed through that and got to tech. At tech everyone was pointing out the my rear end looked high and I might have bound up the bar. So I went back to the paddock, loosed it up and tightened it and got to grid.

To start the day I set up with 30lbs up front and 28lbs on the rear. I monitored tire temp and still saw all the way around that the outside of the tires were about 10-30 degrees hotter than the middle and inner. Also, with each run I was getting a lot of groaning from the rear end. None the less, I finished the morning session in 1st place against the same BMW from last week.

After working the next heat, I set up for my afternoon runs. My best clean run was 2 seconds faster than my clean morning run, however I had a couple dirty runs that were one second faster. The rear end continued to make noises and felt way too "springy" in the back. The tire temps were still really confusing as well with the outsides staying really hot. The BMW ended up passing me by half a second and so another second place finish. I had my brakes completely go out on three runs going into a hairpin but that's another story.

So, once we were done with our runs I went back to the paddock and jacked the rear end up to see that the stabilizer was rubbing against the subframe again. I asked another guy with a trailered gen 4 camaro to take a look and see what he thought and he suggested loosening everything up and then trying to tighten everything with weight on the wheels. I started doing that but no matter what I did I couldn't get the clearance I needed.

The I thought ... is it possible the bar is upside down?

The answer is yes, of course it was

I undid everything again, flipped the bar over and everything lined up much better without the rear being jacked in the air. I was literally able to put my closed fist between the tire and the fender ... afterwords, right back down to where it belonged.

So, I'll take a second place with an upside-down stab bar ... look forward to what it can actually do at the next event. haha.

More importantly, I also learned something about the tires. It turns out the the outer shoulder of the tire is a DIFFERENT RUBBER COMPOUND than the middle/inside. This is why the tire temps are so much hotter, because in a turn, as I roll on to the side, the grippier rubber touches the track and heats up to be more sticky. Now all the tire temp readings make 100% sense!

So, for the next event, I am going to shoot for getting the three inboard ribs on the tire to an even temp and ignore the outsides because if the rest are even then that means I'll have optimal grip.

Also, fyi, on these tires there is not a triangle wear indicator but instead a little michelin man printed every 12 inches or so around the top of the sidewall. This is the wear indicator. So I plan to chalk that up and see if even temps also mean correct wear and adjust from there.

Once I have a good understanding of the pressures, I'll adjust the sway bar as necessary. I plan to find the edge between good handling and oversteering and then dial it back a notch.

Very excited about these new learnings!

Finally, the stock bar is 18lbs .. 5.5lbs heavier than the DS bar.

Is there a market for 1LE stock rear bars out there? If so, I'm selling.

Best Run:
https://youtu.be/Q4Mm5B1SoX8

[CamaroDreams76]

Theres a market for the OEM 1LE bars. Easy sell right there. I was laughing at your post about the rear bar. I did this on mine too. I didnt get it all line up and bolted in but as I was reading I was thinking...... yeah installed the bar upside down.

[kcandiotti400]

Hey Everyone, sorry I went silent on the thread but now that the new autox season is here I thought I'd share some things.

First, thanks for all the help with the recommendations. I ended up winning out the rest of the NNJR SCCA events and ended the season tied first for points in F stock. The NYR SCCA ended up not counting the season due to the smaller COVID schedule but was consistently the fastest F stock car there, too.

Going into the new season I'll still be running F stock. Same tires, nothing else really new to note.

The first NNJR for 2021 event was yesterday and I was the only F stock car so, easy win, but I also ran faster than any CAM-C car which is a class that allows for many more mods than F. That part was cool. The not so cool part was that I kept having an issue where before a hairpin I would apply the brake and it felt as if I wasn't pressing the brake at all. The pedal felt the same but the car just kept going. On one of the runs that this happened I pressed the brake even harder and heard a ... kind of a clunk noise ... and then felt the brake working.

I can't tell if its truly brake fade, boiling the fluid, the ABS acting weird, or a mechanic issue in a caliper like a stuck piston or something. I did flush out and upgrade to DOT 4 fluid and HAWK Blue pads last year and it seemed to get a lot better. Not sure why the issue has come back. Any ideas?

Also, in the mods department ... the only other things of note I can do are a cat back exhaust and upgraded shocks. For the cat-back I don't anticipate unlocking any horsepower but potentially a weight savings? I've read some random chatter on the internet about how some kits only save 9lbs of weight. Any ideas here?

For the shocks, I'd assume the factor ones must be pretty good from the factory ... the car has 27k miles so I'd doubt they are too worn out yet. Is there any aftermarket shock that would make a world of difference or am I best running OEM and maybe replacing the originals after this season? The car feels good, no crazy roll or swaying but just asking if it could be better.

Other than that, hope everyone has been doing good!

Thanks!

[PapaKlutch]

It may be the ABS brakes having "Ice Mode" activating. Ice Mode is not an actual mode, it's a description of the car thinking that you're losing control. The pedal gets hard with little travel and it feels like the brakes are not grabbing. Ice mode triggers if ABS detects that the wheels are locking up/decelerating quickly at the same time. Getting on the brakes from gas to hard stab can cause the activation. Be a bit more smooth in gas to brake application.

When Ice Mode activates, release the brake pedal and then reapply the brakes again. Releasing the brakes causes the car to exit Ice mode.

It's also possible it's the Brake Assist function. Doesn't sound like it but it's described in the manual for further reference.

Shocks: Owners have gone to the Bilstein B6 shocks/struts with the stock springs or lowering springs. Of course, you'd stay with the factory springs for running FS.

Exhaust: You have NPP dual mode, I think? It's was a $900 option and I think it's worth keeping. There's no power add from changing it out. Weight savings would be no big deal. Put an exhaust controller in it and you can run it wide open, or fully closed, all at your discretion.

[olblue75]

I did the same thing on my JPSS bar an even trimmed my bushings thinking it was right but once I flipped the bar it was much better except for my ground out PAFDT bushing. Do you still have your OEM 1LE wheels???

[CamaroDreams76]

By what your describing its ice mode like papaklutch said..

I have longtubes, no cats with stock NPP. I didnt get kicked out of my autocross. I ran with the valves closed. They have a 101db sound limit. But I wouldn't change the exhaust if you have NPP.

I'm not super familiar with the rules of the f stock class but I'm pretty sure as long as it's OEM on some trim level of camaro you can run it. So with that said the next bump up for suspension would be the Z/28 suspension with the DSSV dampers.

[kburlar]

Great thread. Nice to hear you are enjoying your car. Keep up the posts.