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Old 05-25-2017, 06:05 PM   #169
Dwille
 
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Originally Posted by 17ZL1Camaro View Post
Well, I think we have solved the problem...
Great post and good job by you GM and dcosta for sorting out the issue.
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:28 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by 17ZL1Camaro View Post
Well, I think we have solved the problem. After having the "black box data recorder" for the last couple of days and duplicating the issue, here is what the engineers have found. There is a sensor in the clutch pedal that will cut the spark to the engine if your foot touches it while under WOT. It is apparently VERY sensitive and you CANNOT touch the pedal with your foot while under WOT or the sensor will cut power at 5100 RPM's. The engineers have designed this as a safety measure to keep from over revving the engine. He explained that this a very powerful engine and very expensive to warranty. So they made this safety feature very sensitive. An over revved engine would NOT be covered by warranty. So you must keep your foot off of the clutch until you are about to shift, the slightest of contact with the clutch pedal while at full throttle over 93% depressed will cut the spark and power to engine. You don't even have to press the pedal at all, just resting your foot on clutch pedal in anticipation of next shift will activate sensor and cut power. I wasn't sure I believed them at first because I have had multiple stick shift cars over the years and I am driving the same as always. They said they understood, but most cars are not set up like the ZL1. So I went out and tested the car and put it through multiple hard 0-60 pulls with my foot OFF of the pedal and it never cut power. I tested again resting foot on clutch pedal and bingo, cut the power at 5100 RPM's. He said it was the third known case recently that they have put a data box on and all had the same results. It makes me wonder if it is TOO sensitive? I would like to thank the dealer, GM Field Engineer and the GM engineers who analyzed the data. The were very courteous and determined to get to the bottom of it. Also, Dcosta, on this forum for figuring out the issue before the engineers could confirm. I guess I will need to adjust my driving technique from here on out.
Well, that's a relief. At least it's not a wire bundle rubbing on a belt, collapsing inlet tube, or some other craziness.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:41 PM   #171
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It's great to hear that it's not a problem with the car and you've found the resolution to your issues. It's a bit surprising that they have it that sensitive though. I understand that they're trying to limit their exposure to expensive warranty claims, but it seems like that's being overly cautious.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:17 PM   #172
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That's a bit anti-climactic, but a pretty good outcome for the group of us collectively.

So is there not a rev-limiter on these things that would prevent a catastrophic rogue rev too far in to redline?
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:32 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Infern0 View Post
That's a bit anti-climactic, but a pretty good outcome for the group of us collectively.

So is there not a rev-limiter on these things that would prevent a catastrophic rogue rev too far in to redline?
Yes, there is a rev limiter. This is apparently another safety feature built in as insurance. It's a little different than I'm used too. At least we figured it out and there is nothing mechanically wrong.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:35 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Infern0 View Post
That's a bit anti-climactic, but a pretty good outcome for the group of us collectively.

So is there not a rev-limiter on these things that would prevent a catastrophic rogue rev too far in to redline?
maybe it helps reduce the chance of a money shift
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:09 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17ZL1Camaro View Post
Well, I think we have solved the problem. After having the "black box data recorder" for the last couple of days and duplicating the issue, here is what the engineers have found. There is a sensor in the clutch pedal that will cut the spark to the engine if your foot touches it while under WOT. It is apparently VERY sensitive and you CANNOT touch the pedal with your foot while under WOT or the sensor will cut power at 5100 RPM's. The engineers have designed this as a safety measure to keep from over revving the engine. He explained that this a very powerful engine and very expensive to warranty. So they made this safety feature very sensitive. An over revved engine would NOT be covered by warranty. So you must keep your foot off of the clutch until you are about to shift, the slightest of contact with the clutch pedal while at full throttle over 93% depressed will cut the spark and power to engine. You don't even have to press the pedal at all, just resting your foot on clutch pedal in anticipation of next shift will activate sensor and cut power. I wasn't sure I believed them at first because I have had multiple stick shift cars over the years and I am driving the same as always. They said they understood, but most cars are not set up like the ZL1. So I went out and tested the car and put it through multiple hard 0-60 pulls with my foot OFF of the pedal and it never cut power. I tested again resting foot on clutch pedal and bingo, cut the power at 5100 RPM's. He said it was the third known case recently that they have put a data box on and all had the same results. It makes me wonder if it is TOO sensitive? I would like to thank the dealer, GM Field Engineer and the GM engineers who analyzed the data. The were very courteous and determined to get to the bottom of it. Also, Dcosta, on this forum for figuring out the issue before the engineers could confirm. I guess I will need to adjust my driving technique from here on out.
Soooooooooooooo

I guess that the amazing GM No-Lift-Shift isn't a thing like it was in 5th Gen ZL1s and C6 Vettes? Ok. Rip power shifting and aggressive driving...
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:16 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP View Post
Soooooooooooooo

I guess that the amazing GM No-Lift-Shift isn't a thing like it was in 5th Gen ZL1s and C6 Vettes? Ok. Rip power shifting and aggressive driving...
That system works just fine anything passed 5500 activates a different system.
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:26 AM   #177
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That system works just fine anything passed 5500 activates a different system.
Makes sense. Thanks.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:19 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by dcosta View Post
That system works just fine anything passed 5500 activates a different system.
Excuse my ignorance but does the 2017 ZL1 have the "no lift shift"? And needs to be above 5500?
My motorcycle has a "quick shifter" that allows up shifting without clutch at just about any rpm. It cuts the ignition spark for a few milliseconds.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:40 AM   #179
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Excuse my ignorance but does the 2017 ZL1 have the "no lift shift"? And needs to be above 5500?
My motorcycle has a "quick shifter" that allows up shifting without clutch at just about any rpm. It cuts the ignition spark for a few milliseconds.
No you can use the no lift shift at any rpm and it works just fine.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:46 AM   #180
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No you can use the no lift shift at any rpm and it works just fine.
I'll have to give that a try......Thanks!
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:56 AM   #181
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No you can use the no lift shift at any rpm and it works just fine.
So if you pin the throttle at 2k rpms in 3rd and nls 4th at 3k rpms, it won't spin up too much past that? I want to say I've tried that before and it just revved to at least 5500, which means it's not active. I know for sure it works when you spin it past 5500 though.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:59 AM   #182
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I thought there was a post somewhere which showed the ECM parameters that needed to be met in order for the NLS to engage but I can't find it. To me it sounded like that was the SAME system that was engaging here, though inadvertently. But then I've seen another thread stating that the NLS doesn't actually hold the RPM but allows it to more safely hit the rev limiter. If the latter is true then it's a different system. Can anyone confirm?
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