ZL1 to a 1LE?

[ITRIEDEL]

I like the ZL1, I almost bought the ZL1 over the 1LE, and had I test drove it, I probably would have, but I declined for that exact reason. Sometimes I wish I would have gotten a ZL1 instead because after getting walked by a M4 on the highway, I realized how slow my car is. With all that being said; I think the 1LE looks better. It doesn't look as big, and the front end on the new Camaros (except the ZL1) is why I switched to the Camaros after having previously owned several Mustangs. I haven't test drove a ZL1, so as far as performance is concerned, I do not have an opinion. Obviously the ZL1 would be more powerful, but I can't get over that huge front end. I won't even look at the 12-13 because the taillights are hideous. Just my opinion.

The z28 is probably the ideal car for me, but at the time they wanted 80k for them, and at that point I would have just opted for a fully loaded Stingray.

[Todd in Vancouver]

Really guys? This is just another example of the ZL1 bashing on C5. This test has already been done and by the time you've modded the 1LE to catch the ZL you could have bought a ZL. AND, you all skipped my point that in order for your arguement to make sense you'll need to mod the 1LE and keep the ZL totally stock. The ZL is so tied down by GM that just a CAI adds 25-30 RWHP. A couple minor mods to the ZL and your heavily modded 1LE is only going to see tail lights.

ALSO, do you realize this small difference in lap times as you describe is the same time difference between the ZL1 and the Z/28? and I have no illusions of passing a Z/28 with my ZL.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

Really guys? This is just another example of the ZL1 bashing on C5. This test has already been done and by the time you've modded the 1LE to catch the ZL you could have bought a ZL. AND, you all skipped my point that in order for your arguement to make sense you'll need to mod the 1LE and keep the ZL totally stock. The ZL is so tied down by GM that just a CAI adds 25-30 RWHP. A couple minor mods to the ZL and your heavily modded 1LE is only going to see tail lights.

ALSO, do you realize this small difference in lap times as you describe is the same time difference between the ZL1 and the Z/28? and I have no illusions of passing a Z/28 with my ZL.

Why is this bashing? I and others have said that ZL1 was a better car with features that could not be duplicated Who has bashed the car? But the concept that for $20K you can make the 1LE faster is nothing new. News flash, you can buy and older Gen 5 and with the 40 grad that you have spent less than a new ZL1, kick its ass all over the road course. We paid $3500 for our '69 in 1985. At that point, a new Z/28 was around $18K. With a little bit of help (only because the previous owner was not so smart with his parts matching) that '69 would kick the hell out of those new Camaro's on the drag strip. Was it a better car, not a chance. Was it a faster car, by a ton!

[Dropspeed]

I don't think people are bashing the ZL1. It is a matter of what the car will be used for. Being this is a 1LE section I would hope most of us track our cars. Our comparison is based on what most people that track cars do. Wheels, tires, brake upgrades and some bolt on power adders.

Can you do the same to a ZL1. Yes and it will make more power and go faster.......but for a more responsive feel, weight is the killer for a track day car.

[Todd in Vancouver]

There is no doubt that the ZL is heavy. But do you really think that comment after comment on "its a fine driving car for the street" type talk about the ZL and how a 1LE is a true track car isn't bashing? The ZL was setting track time before the 1LE was born and frankly still holds a superior position on ALL THE RECORDS. Can the 1LE beat a Z? With no doubt, with enough money anything can beat anything. But as I keep repeating if the ZL owner does a few minor mods you are once again toast. A pulley, CAI, headers and tune are good for close to 700hp and it still has the chassis to lay it down on the 1/4 and the road course.

The reason I keep posting on these threads is somebody looking to make a purchase is going to read one of these and think they can buy a 1LE and lay waste to the ZL1 and everything else in its wake. It's simpley not true. Not to mention the issues arising when you truely start pushing the 1LE on track.

Gajagfan, I get what your saying and if you hit the link in my signature you'll see I'm building a rather potent first Gen. for racing and street use. To be blunt I would expect it would lay a good beating on a 1LE and maybe run my ZL. But, here is the thing, I know that with a hard axle and 350ci SBC that the car will have its limits. If a 1LE or ZL were to add some more goodies there is a point that comes where catching it is just going to be out of my reach and thats just the way it is. There comes a point when spending additional money trying to catch the better car becomes more costly then just buying the better car.

All that said it really matters little because most of us are not capable of driving these cars anywhere near their limits so the better driver will win regardless of what the car can really do. I've got 3 track events in April already booked and hope all of you are getting as much enjoyment from your cars as I am mine.

[ST1LE]

[QUOTE=Todd in Vancouver;8350212]There is no doubt that the ZL is heavy. But do you really think that comment after comment on "its a fine driving car for the street" type talk about the ZL and how a 1LE is a true track car isn't bashing?


I dont think anyone has ever said that the ZL1 is just a 'fine driving car'. Like I said in my post, anyone that says a 1LE is a flat out better car would be foolish, as it is simply not true.

This should not upset you, but the fact is the 1LE is better suited to track duty(i.e. it IS a better track car). That does not necessarily mean it is a faster car, there are many more factors to consider other than just speed. I for one could not take either car to their limits at this point, but will start taking lessons next spring. I feel the 1LE is a better platform for a beginner like me, as its been engineered to track(better balance, easier to control and handle), and the reduced power and weight up front compared to the ZL1 will make my experience a more enjoyable one as I wont have to fight the power and weight while at the same time try and learn how to track my car at the limit. When I do hit the track it wont be to beat every other car out there, it will be to have fun and learn and progress. The less I have to fight the car, the more fun I will have. I dont care how many ZL1's blow by me on the straights, this is me against me.

The ZL1 was engineered for so much more than just the track, while that is exactly what the 1LE was designed for. The ZL1 shines in so many more areas than the 1LE, so why be upset that people recognize how good the 1LE is at the ONE thing it was really designed to do?

You drive a ZL1 man, enjoy that amazing machine and get over the fact that it isnt the best at everything.

[Nor Cal ZL1]

You can have a great time at the track in so many difrerent cars and h/p levels. I think the theme I'm seeing here is the Z is not a great track car, but a street cruiser. Yes the car has a bit more weight but it is very well balanced and is a blast to drive at the track. I think people discredit the car, but few have actually driven it to provide feedback. Its not as bad as you might think.

[45thAnniversary2SS]

Did I miss something here? How is the 1LE a better track car???

[Billy10mm]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

Really guys? This is just another example of the ZL1 bashing on C5. This test has already been done and by the time you've modded the 1LE to catch the ZL you could have bought a ZL. AND, you all skipped my point that in order for your arguement to make sense you'll need to mod the 1LE and keep the ZL totally stock. The ZL is so tied down by GM that just a CAI adds 25-30 RWHP. A couple minor mods to the ZL and your heavily modded 1LE is only going to see tail lights.

ALSO, do you realize this small difference in lap times as you describe is the same time difference between the ZL1 and the Z/28? and I have no illusions of passing a Z/28 with my ZL.

No, this is another example of someone who doesn't go to the track BELIEVING that this is some sort of ZL1 bashing. If you actually tracked regularly, you'd know that lap times aren't everything and that, as has been mentioned time and time again, weight and consistency are much more important than overall lap times.

The Miata is twice the track car the Z/28 is and 4 times what a 1LE or ZL1 is. I would easily spend 2 to 3 times LESS money tracking a Miata than I would a 1LE. With that sort of financial savings, I would have a lot more track time. And track time, not lap time, is the ultimately goal. Anyone who says differently isn't a track junkie.

But I don't have the space to store and maintain a dedicated track car like a Miata, and the Miata is a terrible street car. So for me, I want something that is a great street car, and a very strong track car. And what strikes that balance correctly for me (and many others) is the 1LE. It is the better track car. It isn't the faster track car, it's the better track car. There is a big difference. Why do I keep having to explain this to you?

[Billy10mm]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

There is no doubt that the ZL is heavy. But do you really think that comment after comment on "its a fine driving car for the street" type talk about the ZL and how a 1LE is a true track car isn't bashing? The ZL was setting track time before the 1LE was born and frankly still holds a superior position on ALL THE RECORDS. Can the 1LE beat a Z? With no doubt, with enough money anything can beat anything. But as I keep repeating if the ZL owner does a few minor mods you are once again toast. A pulley, CAI, headers and tune are good for close to 700hp and it still has the chassis to lay it down on the 1/4 and the road course.

Anyone can make a car that would trash a Radical on the track given enough money. This discussion shouldn't, in any way, start bringing modifications into the argument. Some here are arguing that by lightly modding the 1LE, you can bring it up to ZL1 track times without having to deal with the ZL1 weight and heat soak ... while that statement is true, it opens the doors to the never-ending "well I can do this mod to 1-up your mod" argument. It's a waste of everyone's time.

Stock for stock, the 1LE is lighter, rotates better, and has lower track running costs than the ZL1. It makes more than enough horsepower to satisfy every track rat I know (and I know dozens).

The reason I keep posting on these threads is somebody looking to make a purchase is going to read one of these and think they can buy a 1LE and lay waste to the ZL1 and everything else in its wake. It's simpley not true. Not to mention the issues arising when you truely start pushing the 1LE on track.

Then that person would be an idiot. Anyone who thinks they can lay waste to a car with 150 more HP is a flipping idiot. We continue to say it, over and over and over and over again. The 1LE is the better track car. No one is saying anything about it being the faster track car. Just that its the better track car. Anyone over the age of 15 and who regularly tracks their vehicle will understand this. To the rest of you, hopefully you can follow along.

Gajagfan, I get what your saying and if you hit the link in my signature you'll see I'm building a rather potent first Gen. for racing and street use. To be blunt I would expect it would lay a good beating on a 1LE and maybe run my ZL. But, here is the thing, I know that with a hard axle and 350ci SBC that the car will have its limits. If a 1LE or ZL were to add some more goodies there is a point that comes where catching it is just going to be out of my reach and thats just the way it is. There comes a point when spending additional money trying to catch the better car becomes more costly then just buying the better car.

All that said it really matters little because most of us are not capable of driving these cars anywhere near their limits so the better driver will win regardless of what the car can really do. I've got 3 track events in April already booked and hope all of you are getting as much enjoyment from your cars as I am mine.

Anyone who tracks 3 times in a month, is by my definition, a track junkie. Either these are some of your first track events, or you've got truck loads of disposable cash and dropping $1500 on tires twice a month doesn't bother you (not to mention brakes).

Have you ever used a small, lightweight car for track use? If not, maybe you just don't realize how much money can be saved using a truly light car (and how little you give up in lap time in the process). Not only that, but using a lighter car with less horsepower teaches you to be a better driver. It forces you to carry as much speed as possible through every section, it teaches you to connect corners instead of relying on horsepower.

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by Billy10mm

No, this is another example of someone who doesn't go to the track BELIEVING that this is some sort of ZL1 bashing. If you actually tracked regularly, you'd know that lap times aren't everything and that, as has been mentioned time and time again, weight and consistency are much more important than overall lap times.

The Miata is twice the track car the Z/28 is and 4 times what a 1LE or ZL1 is. I would easily spend 2 to 3 times LESS money tracking a Miata than I would a 1LE. With that sort of financial savings, I would have a lot more track time. And track time, not lap time, is the ultimately goal. Anyone who says differently isn't a track junkie.

But I don't have the space to store and maintain a dedicated track car like a Miata, and the Miata is a terrible street car. So for me, I want something that is a great street car, and a very strong track car. And what strikes that balance correctly for me (and many others) is the 1LE. It is the better track car. It isn't the faster track car, it's the better track car. There is a big difference. Why do I keep having to explain this to you?

Because better is subjective. Opinions are subjective. Have you tracked a Z?

[Billy10mm]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

You can have a great time at the track in so many difrerent cars and h/p levels. I think the theme I'm seeing here is the Z is not a great track car, but a street cruiser. Yes the car has a bit more weight but it is very well balanced and is a blast to drive at the track. I think people discredit the car, but few have actually driven it to provide feedback. Its not as bad as you might think.

Personally, I've driven the ZL. It's an awesome vehicle. I'd never driven something as powerful as my 1LE before, so the ZL1 was monstrous. As a street car, it is phenomenal.

And I'd love to have a full-out track weekend with one. I think it would be a blast and would love to do my best Chris Harris impersonation for at least 1 full stint. But I'm barely able to digest maintaining my 1LE and I'm not doing as many track events and auto-crosses as I'd like because of the upkeep costs. A ZL1 would mean even less track time. And the extra smiles the ZL1 would put on my face as a daily-driver doesn't overcome the loss of track time.

[Billy10mm]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

Because better is subjective. Opinions are subjective. Have you tracked a Z?

Yes, but only about 4 laps. Fun car. Very different behavior on the track than my 1LE. You drive the two cars very differently. I didn't expect the difference to be as big as it was.

[RGRCamaro]

I am not sure why these threads always come up. They are two different cars, built for two different reasons, targeting two different markets.

1LE is obviously designed for a track, and for 35-38K You get an awesome track car, that is hard to beat when comparing similar models for the price!

ZL1 is another great track car, and I believe it was targeted towards that group that wanted a car that could do everything good (Track, strip, cruise), without having to mod it. And it accomplishes that goal!

The two really shouldn't be compared. Simply because of the $$$ difference. Just like how people compare the ZL1 to a modded SS, can't really compare the two. With the extra $$$ you can always make a car more powerful or turn faster.