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Old 05-15-2016, 06:01 PM   #15
GetYouOne

 
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R u guys running a IAT2 sensor?
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Old 05-15-2016, 06:54 PM   #16
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Only run a single IAT sensor. "IAT 2" is typically only a PD blower thing. No need to run 2 IATs for a centri/turbo setup and meth.

Too much meth is when you get a HUGE difference in cylinder to cylinder. The more meth, the more of an issue. Your wideband may show 11.5:1 but that is an average of cylinders, so with a ton of meth you could be 9.5:1 in cylinder #1 and 13.5:1 in #7. Then you melt a piston and wonder why. Without individual cylinder monitoring and control, or direct port meth, it gets really dangerous to spray a ton of meth.
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:36 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Unreal View Post
Only run a single IAT sensor. "IAT 2" is typically only a PD blower thing. No need to run 2 IATs for a centri/turbo setup and meth.

Too much meth is when you get a HUGE difference in cylinder to cylinder. The more meth, the more of an issue. Your wideband may show 11.5:1 but that is an average of cylinders, so with a ton of meth you could be 9.5:1 in cylinder #1 and 13.5:1 in #7. Then you melt a piston and wonder why. Without individual cylinder monitoring and control, or direct port meth, it gets really dangerous to spray a ton of meth.
Thank you for the great information...
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:41 PM   #18
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Using meth doesn't mean you went cheap on the fuel system. FI can make a lot of heat so you need it to help keep IAT's down. And some want to stay with pump gas. On 91-93 you can buy the biggest FP you can find and its not going to help with the octane. I have a Squash system in my car and I still run meth. If I switched to race gas I would just use it to cool.
Where in my post did I mention meth being a cheap solution for fuel? I run an alky control dual nozzle setup with my real fuel system, not a zl1 pump, and my original point had nothing to do with meth being cheap. it had to do with using meth to depend on a fuel source and running a cheap zl1 pump to fuel a turbo car. I guess you didn't really read, but wanted to post.
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:53 PM   #19
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Where in my post did I mention meth being a cheap solution for fuel? I run an alky control dual nozzle setup with my real fuel system, not a zl1 pump, and my original point had nothing to do with meth being cheap. it had to do with using meth to depend on a fuel source and running a cheap zl1 pump to fuel a turbo car. I guess you didn't really read, but wanted to post.
Oh I read your post. Using a ZL1 pump is not going cheap on the fuel system. It's all most people need. So you're saying you have a dual nozzle setup and you're not using it as a fuel source? And your motor is not meth dependent?
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Old 05-16-2016, 07:20 AM   #20
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Oh I read your post. Using a ZL1 pump is not going cheap on the fuel system. It's all most people need. So you're saying you have a dual nozzle setup and you're not using it as a fuel source? And your motor is not meth dependent?
Apparently you didn't read, because you went left field on a rant about meth being a cheap solution, preaching to the choir for whatever reason. Back when I had Livernois' wonderful dual zl1 fuel pump module that isn't actually capable of supporting the fuel they claim, I opted for dual nozzle to make sure I didn't run lean until I got a real fuel system. Now that I have a fore system, my motor is not dependent on meth. Dual 465's with a DSX flex fuel sensor kit to run E85/93, so no, my motor is not dependent on meth. But carry on with your ZL1 pump.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:38 AM   #21
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Apparently you didn't read, because you went left field on a rant about meth being a cheap solution, preaching to the choir for whatever reason. Back when I had Livernois' wonderful dual zl1 fuel pump module that isn't actually capable of supporting the fuel they claim, I opted for dual nozzle to make sure I didn't run lean until I got a real fuel system. Now that I have a fore system, my motor is not dependent on meth. Dual 465's with a DSX flex fuel sensor kit to run E85/93, so no, my motor is not dependent on meth. But carry on with your ZL1 pump.
Our pumps definitely do support what we advertise, but you must remember that every combination is different. 800 RWHP NA has very different fueling than 800RWHP with a blower, which is different than a turbo, and that's not even factoring the overall efficiency of the combo, and if it's an auto, or manual. We sell a staggering amount of these pumps and I can assure you, there's only a handful of people that have ever made such a statement and more often than not when we review the data, it's actually fine. Many people mistake delta pressure and what it actually means, forgetting that 58# of rail pressure, -12# of boost results in 46# of delta pressure, but they see 46# and assume that there is a problem where none exists. And in the couple of cases where there has been actual pressure drop, it's usually related to how it's tuned. I went into detail in another thread, but you have to have all encompassing aspects of the calibration correct and proper, playing along WITH GM's built in modeling rather than fighting against it or you can have issues regardless of the pump. the further off the modeling is, the more the fuel control logic will fight back.
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:37 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Livernois Motorsports View Post
Our pumps definitely do support what we advertise, but you must remember that every combination is different. 800 RWHP NA has very different fueling than 800RWHP with a blower, which is different than a turbo, and that's not even factoring the overall efficiency of the combo, and if it's an auto, or manual. We sell a staggering amount of these pumps and I can assure you, there's only a handful of people that have ever made such a statement and more often than not when we review the data, it's actually fine. Many people mistake delta pressure and what it actually means, forgetting that 58# of rail pressure, -12# of boost results in 46# of delta pressure, but they see 46# and assume that there is a problem where none exists. And in the couple of cases where there has been actual pressure drop, it's usually related to how it's tuned. I went into detail in another thread, but you have to have all encompassing aspects of the calibration correct and proper, playing along WITH GM's built in modeling rather than fighting against it or you can have issues regardless of the pump. the further off the modeling is, the more the fuel control logic will fight back.

I am one of the people that thought my fuel system was underperforming. I was pretty condescending on the other thread he was talking about. I was sore that I was not getting the results that was advertised.

Andy, from Livernois, didn't care about my attitude, he was more concerned with helping me and after reviewing some of my data logs. After he checked them out, he explained to me exactly what it was that my fuel system was doing, It turns out I can actually turn up my boost. I was one of the people who was misinterpreting my delta pressure numbers.

My engine is going to be installed this week, and we are turning up the boost, just how much has yet to be determined. I will still be ditching my dual CTSV, Livernois pump setup in favor of a Fore or AGP designed fuel system, but that's not going to happen till late this year, or this winter at the soonest. So till then I'll get whats left from the CTSV pumps, and be happy with whatever I end up with.
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:28 AM   #23
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Hey 1KillerSS what fuel system AGP offer? Can't find it? Thanks
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:32 AM   #24
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Hey 1KillerSS what fuel system AGP offer? Can't find it? Thanks
http://www.agpturbo.com/camaro-5-ss-dual-fuel-pump/
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