Motor Trend compares the ZL1 to the Boss 302 Laguna Seca

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Shurenuff

I regards to this articles last comment when discussing a future 2013 GT500 matchup, I find it interesting that they mention they are going to need a bigger track. I havent seen anyone touch on this yet.

How much you want to bet they find a faster track with more straightaways to help out the higher powered GT500 and hopefully (for them) produce better results for the new Ford? The writing is on the wall from the way this article is written that while the ZL1 had its day here in convincing and impressive fashion, Motortrend plans for the latest and greatest upcoming GT500 to take the crown back. Only thing is, that last comment implies to me that their confidence is a bit shook that the GT500's power advantage will be enough to overcome the ZL1 on a shorter track with more twisties.

That's an interesting posts I will cry FOUL if they don't include at least this track. This also goes back to my comments in other posts about how the active suspension is going to be a better job all-around than an adjustable suspension, like the GT500 will have. I will cry FOUL if they take it to a track for which it was tuned and not, in turn, to the same for ZL1. As long as it's as scientific as you can make it, I will have no problems, regardless of the results. I think it's great ZL1 really beat on the Boss on it's own namesake. Was it the best match-up? In some ways - in others, no... If the GT500 was the better car, it should've been matched up. OR... That was just a way for a rag' to get a rise out of the GM and Ford camps - which it has, LOL.

I can't wait for more tests

[Shurenuff]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

LMAO wow the conspiracies never stop with some people here and Motor Trend magazine even after the camaro gets a glowing review and a gm car gets car of the year

I'm not an anti-Motortrend conspiracy theorist, I'm just calling it how I see it. Motortrend is in the business to sell magazines and what's a more entertaining storyline than a back and forth battle between the big two during the new golden age of HP and performance wars? It's not hard to see that this is where it's headed by reading the last part of this article. And the media skewing the situation in order to obtain the results they want to report, surely that has never happened before.

May the best car, according to them, win. Like Radz said, all you can hope for is a controlled, scientific, and objective test and review.

But, this is after all entertainment. I choose to be entertained while reading all the articles from all the magazines and take certain things into account that I find important. I know it's hard for many, but don't let these reviews (both good and bad) go straight to your head or bend you out of shape. This is media based opinion and entertainment, not biblical scripture.

[htron50]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

Fyi, the boss is labeled as the best mustang ever, not the fastest mustang ever.people like it because its well balanced and nothing in its price range can beast it despite only having an engine with 5 liters

MauriSSio.... stop dwelling on the "liters" issue. It's irrelevant when not put in context to the total weight of the vehicle. And for that matter, when not put in context to the total Price $$ of the vehicle.

And those discussions are already beat to death. I'd like to see everyone just admit the HP battle is starting to reach a PINNACLE. ZR1 seems to be at the top of almost ALL LISTS. ZL1 is at top for it's price range so far. Next model year is another story for another time.

[Houston94vert]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

Ouch,i didnt know all that. Why is mrc not allowed?? Is it like the gtr and how people say it has electronic nannies that takes the "fun" out of it?

Yeah, I'm not seeing a lot of posts in regards to my statement on this one.

The truth of the ZL1 being a track car is hard to read, when it's not a competition ready track car. The ZL1 will do great in comparisions and shoot outs, weekend track days, but will not be able to compete in any sanctioned events. A truth that ZL1 fan boys have yet to comment on.

For the most part, I try and stay neutral or keep out the trolling comments as much as possible. I love talking cars and discussing all good and bad points without trying to hurt feelings.

I personally plan on purchasing a new car this spring.

It will be interesting to see what I'll get.

These are the cars I'm going to be cross shopping.
2012 Boss and Boss LS, and GT500's will be "on sale" (money saved can go towards modifications)
2012 ZL1 will be available
2013 Shelby is going to be the highest price, with the options I would like to have on it.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by Houston94vert

What's funny is you forget about....
Heat soak... how long do you think that will take to set in and pull timing out of ZL1.

Or 350 mile race... let's see.. how many times would the ZL1 need fuel compared to the boss mustang? Or here is the best part... read this...

What sanctioned body event do you speak of, that the ZL1 could race a 350 mile event?

GM (and Ford) marketed the ZL1 and (Boss/LS) as a track car. Ford did so first however, a car that is track ready is far different that is competition ready. You will find that there are a lot of GT, Boss and Boss LS owners that are running competitively in SCCA and NASA. All thier cars (11' GT500 and the Bilstein equipped '13 GT500 included) are legal to run competitively. SCCA now allows supercharged cars to run legally however, the SCCA, NASA, FIA (Europe) and in fact every single road racing organization in the world WILL NOT permit the use of MRC as the ZL1 has.
Could the ZL1 enter Grand Am this year in GS class? No... Could the ZL1 challenge Paul Brown in SCCA GTS? No... Will NASA accept them? No again... The SS has trouble there alone.

The reason an obscure track was selected was because NO existing times for any of the Mustang's are recorded on those tracks. The last GT500 vs. Boss LS at Willow seen the GT500 win by .5 seconds, add in your 650/670hp, 600+tq, Bilstein shocks, revised gearing, New Goodyears and better cooling...

so i understand the ZL1 was built for racing, but which serious class was it even built to compete in?

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by Houston94vert

Yeah, I'm not seeing a lot of posts in regards to my statement on this one.

The truth of the ZL1 being a track car is hard to read, when it's not a competition ready track car. The ZL1 will do great in comparisions and shoot outs, weekend track days, but will not be able to compete in any sanctioned events. A truth that ZL1 fan boys have yet to comment on.

For the most part, I try and stay neutral or keep out the trolling comments as much as possible. I love talking cars and discussing all good and bad points without trying to hurt feelings.

I personally plan on purchasing a new car this spring.

It will be interesting to see what I'll get.

These are the cars I'm going to be cross shopping.
2012 Boss and Boss LS, and GT500's will be "on sale" (money saved can go towards modifications)
2012 ZL1 will be available
2013 Shelby is going to be the highest price, with the options I would like to have on it.

i see. you responded as i was typing out my next question. why is this not even being discussed??

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Shurenuff

But, this is after all entertainment. I choose to be entertained while reading all the articles from all the magazines and take certain things into account that I find important. I know it's hard for many, but don't let these reviews (both good and bad) go straight to your head or bend you out of shape. This is media based opinion and entertainment, not biblical scripture.

That's very true Shure, "all the world's a stage" as it has been said. Take all of it with a grain of salt and understand it for what it really is. In reality, muscle car competition is like The NFL. Any team can win on any given Sunday. In baseball, we come into your town and take 2 out of three, you sweep us in the next series. Many outcomes in competition will be decided by intangibles that can vary widely. That's the beauty of competition. I can beat you today, but you will beat me tomorrow. Magazine articles are designed more for entertainment, with non journalistic information, providing food for thought. Nothing more, nothing less. They are not scientific journals.

[Shurenuff]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

That's very true Shure, "all the world's a stage" as it has been said. Take all of it with a grain of salt and understand it for what it really is. In reality, muscle car competition is like The NFL. Any team can win on any given Sunday. In baseball, we come into your town and take 2 out of three, you sweep us in the next series. Many outcomes in competition will be decided by intangibles that can vary widely. That's the beauty of competition. I can beat you today, but you will beat me tomorrow. Magazine articles are designed more for entertainment, with non journalistic information, providing food for thought. Nothing more, nothing less. They are not scientific journals.

Bingo.


At least we know what team we're rooting for

[2ndCamaro79]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

dood, as a Camaro fan myself, I find you tiring and you should move on to Honda and Nissans, you are a poison to the muscle car hobby.

Why because I don't want to bow down to a 2013 Shelby that is yet to be tested?

Why because I support the car I loved most as a kid?

Why because I show pure facts in my argument instead of hypotheticals?

Sum up all my posts PLEASE, wait I will do it for you

1. The ZL1 beat the Boss 302
2. The ZL1's numbers are better than the 2011 Shelby
3. The Shelby has trouble getting traction
4. The Shelby has NO TEST DATA OUT JUST NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!!
5. Team Camaro challenged the Shelby they backed down.

I even went as far as to say the 2013 Shelby will probably be faster in a straight line. I know this because they already have the ZL1 times to beat hanging on every wall inside Ford. Camaro is the sales leader and Ford wants some of that glory back.

I doubt I have the income you have FFCobra, but I still managed to support all three of the American Muscle Cars. That meant taking my lunch to work, looking at the same small TV, not hanging out with friends every weekend and other sacrifices. Back in the 90s when guys my age were all about import sports cars I worked all though high school and college to pay for my 97 Camaro. Your arguments about my passion for muscle cars hurt, and could not be farther from the truth. When I was seven I had a picture of a 69 Charger and 3rd gen IROC Camaro on my wall. If someone gave me the choice of owning any car it would be a Camaro. Nuff Said

[GT5Junkie]

Which "pure facts" lead you to the conclusion that the GT500 "sucks"?

[Houston94vert]

Originally Posted by 2ndCamaro79

Why because I don't want to bow down to a 2013 Shelby that is yet to be tested?

Why because I support the car I loved most as a kid?

Why because I show pure facts in my argument instead of hypotheticals?

Sum up all my posts PLEASE, wait I will do it for you

1. The ZL1 beat the Boss 302
2. The ZL1's numbers are better than the 2011 Shelby
3. The Shelby has trouble getting traction
4. The Shelby has NO TEST DATA OUT JUST NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!!
5. Team Camaro challenged the Shelby they backed down.

I even went as far as to say the 2013 Shelby will probably be faster in a straight line. I know this because they already have the ZL1 times to beat hanging on every wall inside Ford. Camaro is the sales leader and Ford wants some of that glory back.

I doubt I have the income you have FFCobra, but I still managed to support all three of the American Muscle Cars. That meant taking my lunch to work, looking at the same small TV, not hanging out with friends every weekend and other sacrifices. Back in the 90s when guys my age were all about import sports cars I worked all though high school and college to pay for my 97 Camaro. Your arguments about my passion for muscle cars hurt, and could not be farther from the truth. When I was seven I had a picture of a 69 Charger and 3rd gen IROC Camaro on my wall. If someone gave me the choice of owning any car it would be a Camaro. Nuff Said

I get your enthusiasum but some of the assumptions you make and the way you present them make you look like a troll.

Your points and facts are one sided, as most can pick apart any comparision and show how their side is better. Good example... see below.

1. The ZL1 beat the Boss 302 (it should, it costs a considerably amount more)
2. The ZL1's numbers are better than the 2011 Shelby (it should, ZL1 has been developing for 2 years aiming directly at the shelby)
3. The Shelby has trouble getting traction (Yes and no. The performance packs on the shelbys and new tires help quite a bit. It's not that bad)
4. The Shelby has NO TEST DATA OUT JUST NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!! (there was a point not to long ago, that ZL1 was just numbers, doesn't mean the performance isn't coming)
5. Team Camaro challenged the Shelby they backed down. (This was a PR response and damage control by Cheverolet. Ford doesn't have a production model 2013 shelby gt500 yet to respond with. I'm sure when ford does, they still may decline the direct competition, but rather let the consumer and magazines show the results.)

And I'm sure someone can pick apart my responses above. But to sit there and add exclamation marks and derogative comments only has people questioning the author, not the facts.

[2ndCamaro79]

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

Which "pure facts" lead you to the conclusion that the GT500 "sucks"?

I was just spinning a statement you had made to me earlier, about how my argument sucks. If you want my opinion on the Mustang, here it is. In my opinion it is the least attractive of the three muscle cars, and had been underpowered. Since I have been driving (1995) it was always slower than the Camaro. I did not have deep pockets as a teen or out of college and Ford always seemed to have a slow entry level V8. Ford always wants the consumer to buy their top dog Mustang to gets some power (or mod) that sucked to me as a young adult. The 4th Gen Z28 was a bargain compared to the SVT Cobra. The 5th Gen SS was a bargain compared to the Shelby. Now Ford finally got it right(in my time) with the 2011 5.0, but that is after they woke up and realized they had to finally bring back a cheap potent V8 to stay in the fight. I bought a 2005 GT Mustang, and I kept getting walked by SRT8s, Evos, WRX, M3s, and just about anything else I tried to stoplight race. What was the answer kill my warranty with mods, or shell out major cash for a Shelby

[radz28]

And we're done...

[JerseyMonte]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...2_laguna_seca/