Happy with E85 not 93

[Ds98formula]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

Of course every car is different, but I would estimate somewhere in the 17-19 degree range.

Was able to get two 60-130 runs on 93 for sure lost power both where way slower than before pulley.

Timing was 16 for most of the pull and 17 at the very top

[DrkPhx]

That's low timing for 93 octane and that low of boost. Are you getting knock and what is the AFR at WOT for the entire run? Given the low static compression of the LSA and assuming you're running a colder plug (and the cooling system is in order) you could run more timing by incrementally adjusting it up a couple of degrees on a dyno. Either way, I would stick with E85 and call it a day.

[Ds98formula]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

That's low timing for 93 octane and that low of boost. Are you getting knock and what is the AFR at WOT for the entire run? Given the low static compression of the LSA and assuming you're running a colder plug (and the cooling system is in order) you could run more timing by incrementally adjusting it up a couple of degrees on a dyno. Either way, I would stick with E85 and call it a day.

I don’t have a wide band but on the dyno it was right at 12:1. No knock. I am running colder plugs and msd wires. I am mostly going to run E85 but want to make sure it tuned right when I don’t.

[DrkPhx]

Originally Posted by Ds98formula

I don’t have a wide band but on the dyno it was right at 12:1. No knock. I am running colder plugs and msd wires. I am mostly going to run E85 but want to make sure it tuned right when I don’t.

Get a WB installed on the car for accurate logging. I prefer that over a tail pipe WB on the dyno. 12.1 is on the lean side imo; I would shoot for 11.7 and add some timing back in. Slightly richer AFR (especially on the top end) helps keep the combustion chamber temp lower which helps stave off detonation. Also check the plugs right after a WOT run on the dyno to see where the timing mark on the ground strap is at for a more accurate diagnosis.

[DrkPhx]

For comparison (mine is a M6 as well) I dyno'd 540 rwhp SAE with a CAI and Headers on a Dynojet. Added a small cam and 9.55" lower and dyno'd 649 on the same dyno. That was on 93 octane before I went to E85.

[Ds98formula]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

Get a WB installed on the car for accurate logging. I prefer that over a tail pipe WB on the dyno. 12.1 is on the lean side imo; I would shoot for 11.7 and add some timing back in. Slightly richer AFR (especially on the top end) helps keep the combustion chamber temp lower which helps stave off detonation. Also check the plugs right after a WOT run on the dyno to see where the timing mark on the ground strap is at for a more accurate diagnosis.

I have another tuner looking at the car on Saturday and I will go from there. I will get a wide band at some point too

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by Ds98formula

I don’t have a wide band but on the dyno it was right at 12:1. No knock. I am running colder plugs and msd wires. I am mostly going to run E85 but want to make sure it tuned right when I don’t.

Oh. I was watching a youtube video or an article where they were doing a buildup and LOST big hp when they used those. I can't find it now.

Why, we don't know, could be:
-Were fake wires made in China
-Were "real" wires made halfassed in China
-A knucklhead pulled on the wire not the boot and internally broke one
-A circumstance causes it; I've had plug wires that were slightly longer at the boot and or angled slightly differently where it comes a few milimeters closer to the header, or the insulation is less strong and it jumps a weak spark to the header and you have a miss and lost power.

First thing I'd do is replace with known good stock wires and re-run.

Also it sounds like slipping transmission or torq conv problems I'd experienced back in the day but I thought rpm calculations would throw a code on modern systems if that was the case, or maybe not?

Edit; While you're changing wires make sure each plug is tightened not leaking, don't over tighten and strip it ! I guess I would pay the few $ and change out plugs in case one was cracked while I was doing this or re-use stock plugs even for testing. It's cheaper than mechanic time per hour chasing his guesses.
If none of that helped I'd do a compression test on each cyl. Or do it while changing plugs, time saver. I'm looking for bad rings in the back half of the engine.
I don't disagree with finding .2 AFR or 1-2deg of timing improvements but I'd think that'd be chasing another 5 10hp here and there in the tune. If you are SLOWER than you were before that is like down 20hp. You should be up 40hp so that's like a 60hp missing....missing cyl...
Could be melted cats too.


Meh, I was wrong on one fix idea this week maybe I'm wrong again.

[Mmcmon]

Originally Posted by Ds98formula

Was able to get two 60-130 runs on 93 for sure lost power both where way slower than before pulley.

Timing was 16 for most of the pull and 17 at the very top

Looks like your commanding 12.5 afr
Personally, I’d run it richer. Check your timing tables.

Im running a similar set up as you. CAI, 16#boost, e85, id1300, aux pump, ported blower and heads, #7 plugs, long tubes with cats and stock cat back, c&r hex.
I need a cam & TB :(
In 3rd at 5800rpm I’m moving about 77lb/min of air at .81 lamda and 20*



When I first got my Z I took it to 3 tuners and all 3 left me disappointed. First guy left about 100hp on the table. That’s why I took a master tuning class. If you want, I can look over your tune for you. Remember that the engine should not only make the power you want but it should be smooth and have zero bucking or surging aswell. Don’t settle for less. Good luck brother!

actually going to lower my lambda to .77 now. Lol

[Ds98formula]

Originally Posted by Mmcmon

Looks like your commanding 12.5 afr
Personally, I’d run it richer. Check your timing tables.

Im running a similar set up as you. CAI, 15#boost, e85, id1300, aux pump, ported blower and heads, #7 plugs, long tubes with cats and stock cat back, c&r hex.
I need a cam & TB :(
In 3rd at 5800rpm I’m moving about 77lb/min of air at .81 lamda and 20*



When I first got my Z I took it to 3 tuners and all 3 left me disappointed. First guy left about 100hp on the table. That’s why I took a master tuning class. If you want, I can look over your tune for you. Remember that the engine should not only make the power you want but it should be smooth and have zero bucking or surging aswell. Don’t settle for less. Good luck brother!

Thanks for the offer. I have a new tuner tuning it tomorrow. He ran it on his dyno and it was averaging 8.8 afr. I relogged it and it was commanding 8.8 except at redline. I have a video of the log and it commands 8.8 everywhere no matter the throttle input. If tomorrow doesn’t sort it out I will see if I can get a copy of the dyno log to post.

[Ds98formula]

So for anyone that is interested. New tune has fixed it. Car was commanding the correct afr however with the added pressure from the aux pump he had to dial back the injector some to bring the afr in-line. Also he added timing settling on 19degrees. Car picked 35whp and 40wtq on 93. When he tuned for e85 we were only able to get it to e60 and after a few runs it dropped into the 50s. So I need to run some of this gas out and refill with e85. After I do he will put it back on the dyno and get some final numbers on e85. After I get my final number on E85 I will report back. I also plan on running my tank dry of E85 and testing the new 93 tune on my dragy.

Thanks for everyone that replied to this thread pointing me in the correct direction

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by Ds98formula

I don’t have a wide band but on the dyno it was right at 12:1. No knock. I am running colder plugs and msd wires. I am mostly going to run E85 but want to make sure it tuned right when I don’t.

Well, it is certainly more challenging trying to point you in the right direction when you say it's AFR is 12.1, then the problem is that it is actually 8.8.
Or did I miss something.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by Ds98formula

So for anyone that is interested. New tune has fixed it. Car was commanding the correct afr however with the added pressure from the aux pump he had to dial back the injector some to bring the afr in-line. Also he added timing settling on 19degrees. Car picked 35whp and 40wtq on 93. When he tuned for e85 we were only able to get it to e60 and after a few runs it dropped into the 50s. So I need to run some of this gas out and refill with e85. After I do he will put it back on the dyno and get some final numbers on e85. After I get my final number on E85 I will report back. I also plan on running my tank dry of E85 and testing the new 93 tune on my dragy.

Thanks for everyone that replied to this thread pointing me in the correct direction

Very glad to hear you found someone who could fix you up and not just say basically "it's ok to lose hp with these mods."

NOW it's putting down what it SHOULD be putting down with a 2.55 on 93!

[12oclockshadow]

Originally Posted by Ds98formula

So for anyone that is interested. New tune has fixed it. Car was commanding the correct afr however with the added pressure from the aux pump he had to dial back the injector some to bring the afr in-line. Also he added timing settling on 19degrees. Car picked 35whp and 40wtq on 93. When he tuned for e85 we were only able to get it to e60 and after a few runs it dropped into the 50s. So I need to run some of this gas out and refill with e85. After I do he will put it back on the dyno and get some final numbers on e85. After I get my final number on E85 I will report back. I also plan on running my tank dry of E85 and testing the new 93 tune on my dragy.

Thanks for everyone that replied to this thread pointing me in the correct direction

Sounds like your running good again.

[Ds98formula]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

Very glad to hear you found someone who could fix you up and not just say basically "it's ok to lose hp with these mods."

NOW it's putting down what it SHOULD be putting down with a 2.55 on 93!

Originally Posted by 12oclockshadow

Sounds like your running good again.

Running good now guys. Thanks for the help. It’s nice to have a place to go where people help each other.