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Old 01-21-2014, 07:57 AM   #449
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The Z/28 is always going to fail in comparisons based on price to convenience feature content against any other Camaro trim - and with the possible exception of the Viper most likely against every other U.S. domestic car as well.

You have to want this car because it is a track-oriented car that refuses to conform to current expectations for street-driven cars. As a street driver, you'd need to look at it as having a rebellious nature that suits a few stubbornly independent-minded people (and you have to be one of those people to really get it). The sad part is that its pricing seems to be squeezing some of the people with that sort of mindset out of ownership.


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Old 01-21-2014, 03:02 PM   #450
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Another 15K for a Z/28 compared to my ZL1...Makes it difficult to believe since the ZL1 has so many more features and track times nearly the same. IMO

Track times are not nearly the same. When you consider (depending on track length) 3 - 10 seconds at an average of 80+ MPH.

The Camaros are apples and oranges. That's why they can build and sell both. 2 different customers.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:10 PM   #451
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Another 15K for a Z/28 compared to my ZL1...Makes it difficult to believe since the ZL1 has so many more features and track times nearly the same. IMO
They weren't nearly the same. The ZL1 ran in ideal conditions while the Z/28 did not and it was still faster. Even GM said there is a lot of time that can be cut from the Z/28s lap.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:41 PM   #452
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Track times are not nearly the same. When you consider (depending on track length) 3 - 10 seconds at an average of 80+ MPH.

The Camaros are apples and oranges. That's why they can build and sell both. 2 different customers.
I gotta agree the times are not nearly the same. But neither are the tires that both cars used for the tests. Mount r-comps on a ZL1 and we will have a vastly different result. How vastly? Well, unless such test gets run we may never know. But the lap times would most defo be much, much better. This is (primarily) why a ZR1 improved its Ring time by 7 seconds and a Z06 by a whopping 20. Even the Chief Eng speaks of it in the vids: tires, tires, tires...
And now, thanks to the Z/28 we are already able to order a ZL1 with Recaros and the Z/28 rim/tire set. That's not only near slick uber set of rubber and track focused seats, but also likely circa 100lb less weight all in all. Straight from a GM dealer. I think this will make BOTH cars super capable on any road course, their component differences notwithstanding.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:51 PM   #453
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I gotta agree the times are not nearly the same. But neither are the tires that both cars used for the tests. Mount r-comps on a ZL1 and we will have a vastly different result. How vastly? Well, unless such test gets run we may never know. But the lap times would most defo be much, much better. This is (primarily) why a ZR1 improved its Ring time by 7 seconds and a Z06 by a whopping 20. Even the Chief Eng speaks of it in the vids: tires, tires, tires...
And now, thanks to the Z/28 we are already able to order a ZL1 with Recaros and the Z/28 rim/tire set. That's not only near slick uber set of rubber and track focused seats, but also likely circa 100lb less weight all in all. Straight from a GM dealer. I think this will make BOTH cars super capable on any road course, their component differences notwithstanding.
JusticePete covered the ZL1 with Z/28 wheels/tires and even he said that the gains would be short lived due to the extra weight and power of the ZL1. The ZL1 would wear out the tires much quicker and be finishing on hot, greasy tires that don't grip much.

That could be easily tested by magazines, though. They can get a ZL1 and run it with stock rubber and then with some r compound tires back to back to see what the gains are.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:49 PM   #454
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JusticePete covered the ZL1 with Z/28 wheels/tires and even he said that the gains would be short lived due to the extra weight and power of the ZL1. The ZL1 would wear out the tires much quicker and be finishing on hot, greasy tires that don't grip much.

That could be easily tested by magazines, though. They can get a ZL1 and run it with stock rubber and then with some r compound tires back to back to see what the gains are.
I think if a competition was an enduro, neither car would fair well, as both are very heavy as track cars go.

The ZL1 with Recaros and lighter rims should be about 200lb heavier vs the Z/28, that's about 5%. Hence I don't believe tire wear would be much different. The same if we were to compare two lighter cars, say 3000lb vs 3150lb.

Also, the track comparos are claimed on a best lap basis, "time attack" style. Yeah, it would be great if someone ran such a test and showed us all how those cars compare on an equal footing (pun intended).
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:04 PM   #455
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While I agree these results would be interesting, I can't see GM providing equipment for such a comparison. Some mag would have to procure the ZL1 and tires during a time that they were reviewing a Z/28. Probably not likely that this will happen. I agree it would significantly decrease the gap on a hero lap test.
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:25 PM   #456
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While I agree these results would be interesting, I can't see GM providing equipment for such a comparison. Some mag would have to procure the ZL1 and tires during a time that they were reviewing a Z/28. Probably not likely that this will happen. I agree it would significantly decrease the gap on a hero lap test.
I agree: a chance of GM running such a test is likely NIL.
Yet this scenario may play itself out at our local tracks and, who knows, may lead to some surprised drivers.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:10 PM   #457
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I agree: a chance of GM running such a test is likely NIL.
Yet this scenario may play itself out at our local tracks and, who knows, may lead to some surprised drivers.
You have to remember with higher cornering ability will lead to higher straight line speeds, at the end of those straights the higher speeds and added weight will put more stress on the ZL1 brakes. You not only need the tires but the brakes too. The ZL1 may be faster for a couple laps but after that the Z/28 is going to run away from it.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:41 PM   #458
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You have to remember with higher cornering ability will lead to higher straight line speeds, at the end of those straights the higher speeds and added weight will put more stress on the ZL1 brakes. You not only need the tires but the brakes too. The ZL1 may be faster for a couple laps but after that the Z/28 is going to run away from it.
Agree: brakes are another important "consumable" that should be mentioned. I think ZL1 brakes are actually pretty good: the 2 piece Brembos have received stellar reviews from (independent) pros that tested the car in the past and they also got hammered by GM during their 24hr test. And yes, the ZL1 would work more at slowing for corner entries, because it is a faster car (even with street tires at Milford according to the chart). Given an average amateur track session lasts 25-30mins brakes should not be an issue IMO. But that's just my armchair opinion as I have not driven either.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:29 PM   #459
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I gotta agree the times are not nearly the same. But neither are the tires that both cars used for the tests. Mount r-comps on a ZL1 and we will have a vastly different result. How vastly? Well, unless such test gets run we may never know. But the lap times would most defo be much, much better. This is (primarily) why a ZR1 improved its Ring time by 7 seconds and a Z06 by a whopping 20. Even the Chief Eng speaks of it in the vids: tires, tires, tires...
And now, thanks to the Z/28 we are already able to order a ZL1 with Recaros and the Z/28 rim/tire set. That's not only near slick uber set of rubber and track focused seats, but also likely circa 100lb less weight all in all. Straight from a GM dealer. I think this will make BOTH cars super capable on any road course, their component differences notwithstanding.
Deja Vu

You have already made these statements and I've already answered you...weeks ago.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:33 PM   #460
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I think if a competition was an enduro, neither car would fair well, as both are very heavy as track cars go.

The ZL1 with Recaros and lighter rims should be about 200lb heavier vs the Z/28, that's about 5%. Hence I don't believe tire wear would be much different. The same if we were to compare two lighter cars, say 3000lb vs 3150lb.

Also, the track comparos are claimed on a best lap basis, "time attack" style. Yeah, it would be great if someone ran such a test and showed us all how those cars compare on an equal footing (pun intended).
You're wayyyyy of on the weight reduction from those few items. Probably closer to 30 lbs.
We'll see soon (Friday) how well the Z/28 fares on the track.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:41 PM   #461
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It's really a very comedic argument. Why? Taking what is the same basic platform and taking what differences there are and making them closer to the same to see if they can be equalled...crazy!!!

Why not do it the easy way and put an LSA in the Z/28? That's where you're heading.

It ends up being nothing more than ridiculous and mind numbing.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:05 PM   #462
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It's really a very comedic argument. Why? Taking what is the same basic platform and taking what differences there are and making them closer to the same to see if they can be equalled...crazy!!!

Why not do it the easy way and put an LSA in the Z/28? That's where you're heading.

It ends up being nothing more than ridiculous and mind numbing.
I think to be fair, we should allow the Z/28 to have engine mods that equal the price of the wheels and tires the ZL1 will receive. I think a cam, long tubes and tune should come close to the forged wheels and tires. That should make up for the power difference between the two.
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