Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Vararam
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-24-2017, 07:24 AM   #743
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 10 Legacy 2.5GT, ...
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 5,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Stache View Post
Need thoughts on new setup...

Running autox and hpde's (6-9 events a year) and daily driving on 2nd set of wheels/tires..

Hardware is: coilovers, rear and front sway bars, rear trailing arms and toe arms, 305/30r19s (race setup), 285/35 r20 (daily),poly bushes all around... sitting at about 400 rwhp...

Previs setup worked great... but wondering if I'm leaving more grip on the table..

Front:
Camber: -1.4 to -1.6
Caster : fixed
Toe: 1/16 total

Rear: -1.0 to -1.2
Toe: 0.00 total

Thoughts?
Is it understeering or oversteering? I'd start by pushing camber further negative on the end that's giving up first while leaving the other end alone.

If cornering in your daily driving gets enthusiastic enough, often enough, front cambers as high as -2.0° are do-able without getting into wear that's too uneven. Toe that's somewhere between zero and a tiny bit 'in' will definitely make for less 'twitchy' daily driving and may help keep the wear a little more even.

I do remember a Fox-body competitor at autocross who would change front toe to a "competition setting" for autocross and back again for the drive home. I used to do the same thing with front camber on a '79 Malibu. Both of these cars were stick-axle, but the idea of making temporary alignment changes to best suit the situation at hand stays the same.


Killboy - the conversion from degrees to inches for a 28" tall tire is pretty close to 1/2" per degree. Tangent of the toe angle times the tire OD.


Norm
__________________
'08 GT coupe 5M, wheels, tires, pads, fluid, a few suspension mods . . . still almost at stock height
'10 LGT 6M (hers) and an '01 Maxima 5M (spare)
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 12:40 AM   #744
TWOFORTYZ
 
Drives: 2015 Camaro 1SS 6M
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: The Freeway
Posts: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Info@PeddersUSA.com View Post
Pedders Camaro/G8 Bushing Timing Tech Sheet.pdf
Pedders Camaro/G8 Alignment Tech Sheet.pdf

We have based our align specs for street and track based on professional drivers using telemetry equipment, tire temp monitoring, and recommendations from 3 professional drivers, including Paul Tracy.

The following Aggressive Street settings are recommended based on an average drop of 1 inch:

Front:

Camber to -1.0 degrees
caster 7.4 to 7.8 degrees (requires adding caster Pedders Caster eccentrics to get into this range of caster, which is very benificial
Toe: .1 degrees toe out each wheel.

This amount of toe out will reduce tire scrub and understeer, and will not add to tire wear.

Rear

Camber to -.5 degrees. Reducing the camber to this level will reduce understeer. With a 1 inch drop or lower, you cannot obtain this number without Pedders rear camber eccentrics

Toe to .05 degrees toe in each wheel.

For Aggressive Track

Now these settings are only for a Camaro with a Complete Pedders Track suspension Package. This setup with street performance tires can hit 1.38g's thru the turns, and have great tire temps all across. Paul Tracy said this setup was "PERFECT"

Front

Cambers to -2.4 degrees
Caster 7.5 to 8.0. Requires Pedders Caster eccentrics
Toe .25 degees toe out each wheel. (This setting should not be used for the street)

Rear
Camber -1.2 degrees, Required Pedders rear eccentrics
Toe .05 toe in each wheel.

Here is a video of the Pedders Camaro with these settings, driven by Paul Tracy. Notice the Pedders Camaro being chased by a ZR1, which could not go the same line as the Pedders Camaro.


Here is a video from Chris Fessler, our dealer and sponsor:
http://vimeo.com/8678971

Any questions just ask

thanks
mike
dms

Disclaimer, I am saying this with a grain of salt, but feel very strongly about traffic safety so I am saying this either way. I respect the opinions of others, but do not believe toe out is necessary or beneficial for a street car.

I like everything except the front toe out for aggressive street driving. That causes instability and makes any vehicle less pleasant to mill down the freeway, the improved turn in characteristics are greatly outweighed by the loss in stability from my professional experience. I had no loss in performance when I went with .05 or .10" toe in on any of my cars, and was much more comfortable when running down the freeway and catching potholes and tar snakes. Granted the increased caster helps with stability, I personally will never trade that off by putting toe out up front unless for hypothetical trailered autocross car.

I worked full time as a high end mechanic for several years, and have done dozens of custom alignment experiments with countless hours of testing and tuning on cars with a similar suspension design. Anything I own is driven a LOT and very quickly. I have already put 6000 miles on my SS in 6 weeks. If you are like most people and barely drive, or don't spend much time about 45mph, the twitchy steering may not bother you.
TWOFORTYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 06:47 AM   #745
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 10 Legacy 2.5GT, ...
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 5,412
↑↑↑ You might want to check more recent alignment suggestions by the same entity (under a new name).

The data table in this post was copied directly from "the book" this past September. Read the entire post and post #714 (this will make sense when you do).


FWIW, when one of my previous cars became unreasonably skittish I found some amount of toe out that I no longer remember but could have been as much as 0.2° per side. I've usually aimed for about 0.02" (in) across an 18" wheel on each side, or somewhere around +0.10° total.


Norm
__________________
'08 GT coupe 5M, wheels, tires, pads, fluid, a few suspension mods . . . still almost at stock height
'10 LGT 6M (hers) and an '01 Maxima 5M (spare)

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 01-07-2018 at 06:57 AM.
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 05:59 PM   #746
TWOFORTYZ
 
Drives: 2015 Camaro 1SS 6M
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: The Freeway
Posts: 220
^^

Thanks Norm! I still wouldn't run 0 toe in front, but that's a lot safer than herding cats with a toed out front setup.

I wonder why everyone spec's so much toe in for the rear? The car toes itself slightly in under load due to the rwd design. I may have to do some experiments to see if there is anything to gain, the car does have a bit of snap over steer which will be reduced/more progressive with less rear toe in.
TWOFORTYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 06:26 PM   #747
JusticePete
VIR Specialist

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,246
Feel free to play with your alignment specs, but we have been doing this since 2009 and have a pretty good idea of where the car needs to be.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2018, 08:06 AM   #748
California
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: California
Posts: 16
Smile 22" wheels and sway bars - L99 Convertible

Hey Guys,

I have a 2011 L99 Convertible with Sway Bars and 22" Vossen VVS-CV1 wheels.

Are the below Alignment specs (OEM SS Column) the most ideal for Street Driving?

Thanks,
Attached Images
 
California is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2018, 09:10 AM   #749
JusticePete
VIR Specialist

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,246
22" wheels wear fast with a lot of negative camber. Use the OEM spec.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 01:23 AM   #750
California
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: California
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
22" wheels wear fast with a lot of negative camber. Use the OEM spec.
Thanks.

Do you mean these specs?
Attached Images
 
California is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 09:02 AM   #751
JusticePete
VIR Specialist

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by California View Post
Thanks.

Do you mean these specs?
Those will be fine with your 22s
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 08:59 AM   #752
suprchrgd
 
Drives: 2015 2SS 1LE
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 56
Opinions on my alignment?
Car is 500whp with btr stg 4 cam. 285/35/20 frt and 305/35/20 rear and is mainly a street car, but may see a few sessions on the road course this summer.
My suspension changes:
Bmr: Trailing arms, Tie rods, upper control arms, 1.4” drop springs, poly cradle bushings, poly differential bushings.

sorry for the huge pic, uploaded from my phone...
Attached Images
 
suprchrgd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 09:18 AM   #753
JusticePete
VIR Specialist

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,246
The rear toe should be in 0.10 per side for high speed stability and stability under hard acceleration.

The front Toe should be at 0.00 to improve on center steering feel and help with turn in.

Front camber issn't wrong, but it also isn't doing much. -1.25 won't create much tire wear and will help with cornering and understeer. Even better at -1.5 but you'll start to see inside shoulder wear faster.

Next time print this and take it with you.

http://www.jpssonline.com/t-camaro-a...fications.aspx





JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 09:31 AM   #754
TXM62SS
 
TXM62SS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pearland, TX
Posts: 368
Damn Pete. I wish you were in Texas bud. I would have you handle all my suspension work.
__________________
Victory Red 2012 2SS/RS LS3 Camaro
Pat G. Spec Cam from Cam Motion 228/236 .599/.599 112+2LSA
Kooks 1-7/8" LTs w/ Cats
Roto-Fab, Bo White TB, Borla Touring Catback
Texas Speed UD Pulley
3.91 1LE Gears, MGW
Tuned by Pat G

TXM62SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 09:58 AM   #755
JusticePete
VIR Specialist

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXM62SS View Post
Damn Pete. I wish you were in Texas bud. I would have you handle all my suspension work.
Plan a bucket list trip to VIR. You can swing by the shop and then pit with us at VIR
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 10:36 AM   #756
suprchrgd
 
Drives: 2015 2SS 1LE
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Plan a bucket list trip to VIR. You can swing by the shop and then pit with us at VIR
thanks Pete. I sent you a pm. i may be making a trip to myrtle each this summer and may just drop my car off for a few days while I head further south.
suprchrgd is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Definitive GT500 Thread garagelogic Chevy Camaro vs... 98 02-12-2010 01:14 PM
Lets start a Tire Specific Thread here, sizes, brands, specs and other usefull info. 55Designs Wheels and Tires Talk Sponsored by The Tire Rack 0 12-20-2009 07:58 PM
Suggestion: Explanation to thread starters for their threads being locked? colin911 Site Related Announcements / Suggestions / Feedback / Questions 2 12-06-2009 10:25 PM
Dealer Praise Thread (Not an Idiot!) RPO_Z28 Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions 84 06-25-2009 01:00 AM
prices thread nimnels 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 1 05-02-2009 06:47 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.