Electric Vehicles

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by 90503

Yes, the list of wasteful spending and subsidies by the govt is quite extensive, as you point out. Thank you.

Nothing is more permanent than a temporary government program.Hopefully most, if not all of it, ends soon.

The waste and expense related to EVs is relevant in this thread as is the EV news of upcoming EV tech, etc.

Agree, I'd say ethanol is out of scope for an EV thread, but EV policy, driven by government de facto (I qualified it, Jim!) mandates, and subsidies are well within bounds, especially as consumer demand is tapping out and significant policy changes on the horizon will drastically impact OEMs' EV sales and planning.

FWIW, I think ethanol subsidies have declined to the point where the pump price is not cost effective with reduced mileage for most people. It's down to a niche market for performance enthusiasts, and not much more. If anything, it's a good use case for what happens when you let market forces determine demand, not forcing change down consumers throats.

If you want a sunshine and rainbows thread about a coming EV "revolution" and new models, you're welcome to spin one up.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Agree, I'd say ethanol is out of scope for an EV thread, but EV policy, driven by government de facto (I qualified it, Jim!) mandates, and subsidies are well within bounds, especially as consumer demand is tapping out and significant policy changes on the horizon will drastically impact OEMs' EV sales and planning.

FWIW, I think ethanol subsidies have declined to the point where the pump price is not cost effective with reduced mileage for most people. It's down to a niche market for performance enthusiasts, and not much more. If anything, it's a good use case for what happens when you let market forces determine demand, not forcing change down consumers throats.

If you want a sunshine and rainbows thread about a coming EV "revolution" and new models, you're welcome to spin one up.

You just earned yourself a tall cold brew next time I’m in Arizona!

[Gen6cyl]

The automobile companies going along with the government forcing us into ev's and sucking up tax money, hope they get bit in the ass.

[90503]

OMG! gm is changing course on something, even after all the planning and tons of money spent!

Will miracles ever cease? lol

"A Robotaxi business is not General Motors' core business," said CEO Mary Barra.
General Motors will no longer fund Cruise.
GM says launching and maintaining a Robotaxi network is not something that it is interested in doing.
The automaker intends to roll Cruise's commercial tech into its vision for "Personal Autonomy."
After a staggering $10 billion investment, General Motors is officially hitting the brakes on Cruise.

This looks like a massive disruption to their "consistency". I wonder what investments may end next?...lol

Of course Mary Barra is still the all-time gm genius, and this can only be a positive decision.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Nope. Not that. I just got an insider’s take on it and it’s primarily because of under performance in Europe, but it is also considering the way too fat inventory of trucks in the US, potential strikes pending at two locations, and unfair labor practice lawsuits that are drawing out way too long.

Huh.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...jb-1scXQ5wafXQ

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by 90503

OMG! gm is changing course on something, even after all the planning and tons of money spent!

Will miracles ever cease? lol


After a staggering $10 billion investment, General Motors is officially hitting the brakes on Cruise.

This looks like a massive disruption to their "consistency". I wonder what investments may end next?...lol

Of course Mary Barra is still the all-time gm genius, and this can only be a positive decision.

$10B here, $5B there... pretty soon we're talking real money.

[90503]

Thought I'd add this. Mary Barra, as much as a lot of us like to criticize her decisions, this article gives it another take.

I thought it was a good article. Anyhoo....:

https://insideevs.com/news/743774/gm...-breakthrough/

P.S. The "Comments" are a pretty good read as well...lol

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Huh.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...jb-1scXQ5wafXQ

Tim kiniskus kind of already said this. He said he was instructed to stop having to pay Tesla for emissions credits thus they had to cancel the hemi. The instruction would have came from Carlos of course.

I also heavily blame dodge themselves for this. Well before being bought by stelantis they never made a decision to UPDATE the hemi in order to meet new emissions standards. The Gen iii hemi came out alll the way back in 2003. That’s way before the current Gen V GM V8’s and way before the Gen 1 coyote (2011). Ford has come out with its 4 different generations of coyote since the current/last Gen hemi came out and GM came out with at least 2 generations since 2003 (forgot what year Gen iii LS came out).

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

(forgot what year Gen iii LS came out).

1997 C5, I think?

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Tim kiniskus kind of already said this. He said he was instructed to stop having to pay Tesla for emissions credits thus they had to cancel the hemi. The instruction would have came from Carlos of course.

I also heavily blame dodge themselves for this. Well before being bought by stelantis they never made a decision to UPDATE the hemi in order to meet new emissions standards. The Gen iii hemi came out alll the way back in 2003. That’s way before the current Gen V GM V8’s and way before the Gen 1 coyote (2011). Ford has come out with its 4 different generations of coyote since the current/last Gen hemi came out and GM came out with at least 2 generations since 2003 (forgot what year Gen iii LS came out).

My point was really just directed at MartinJim who insisted his “insider” told him Stellantis failure was underperformance in Europe and fat truck inventories in the US.

Yes that’s part of it but as I had pointed out the decision to kill the Hemi in trucks and the Charger as well as pissed off dealers in America are a major contributor:

https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/c...ciDfpOXjNxjC-A

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Huh.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...jb-1scXQ5wafXQ

Originally Posted by olrocker

My point was really just directed at MartinJim who insisted his “insider” told him Stellantis failure was underperformance in Europe and fat truck inventories in the US.

Yes that’s part of it but as I had pointed out the decision to kill the Hemi in trucks and the Charger as well as pissed off dealers in America are a major contributor:

https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/c...ciDfpOXjNxjC-A

Sorry. Been really busy these past few days. For the record, it’s MARTINJLM. I understand that jlm looks like Jim but it’s not. Anyway, I stand by my analysis. Hemi was killed several years ago. It’s been a slow death because it’s difficult to turn off a rapid faucet all at once. Tavares wasn’t even CEO at the point in time it was decided to kill it. Sure, he could have made a decision to keep it going and clearly he did not. The death of Hemi was commissioned when FCA (before Stellantis) developed the Hurricane line of engines. The 3.0L inline in various trims can be developed to out-perform every version of Hemi. The biggest problems for Tavares are and pretty much always have been in Europe where vehicles aren’t selling and plants are idling or facing strikes because of threats to idle them. The problems in the US, particularly lawsuits from the UAW about the status of plants in Indiana and the slowing sales of Ram trucks can be considered the straw(s) that broke the camel’s back. And it would not be wrong to say that lack o’ Hemi is a contributor to slow Ram sales, but the fact of the matter is, Hurricane replacing Hemi is a strategy that predates Tavares. We were tracking that change in 2017 when I was still at GM. Stellantis arrived there in 2021 after the FCA merger with Peugeot.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Yes that’s part of it but as I had pointed out the decision to kill the Hemi in trucks and the Charger as well as pissed off dealers in America are a major contributor:

Still lots of hemis lying around.

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/12/mi...t-dealer-lots/

To be precise, after browsing through Dodge’s inventory, we found that there are currently 1,839 V8-powered Challengers and 1,183 V8-powered Chargers available at dealerships across the US.

Not sure if its due to dealers still being greedy after a year on the lot, or nobody has any money for a "fun" car anymore, or nobody wants them anymore, or Dodge just got carried away with their final production run.