Catch Can Really Necessary on 2015 Z28?

[pzero]

Originally Posted by macalot

If you are truly concerned I'd surely get an answer from a GM rep before installing. Personally, I'm gonna wait until my warranty is up. I've seen too many folks from all brands get turned down for warranty work for little things that supposedly don't matter.
Just my 2¢.

You're actually right. Ask and get it in writing, or wait till the warranty is up. GM can say what ever they like if they don't want to fix it. At the same time if catch can is so effective, wouldn't you think the dealers would have sold it as extra or at their parts dept....

[D2M]

It can affect the engine. If the catch can system is not perfectly sealed when running in a closed loop it could create a air leak and add unmeasured air into the intake system, maybe causing a lean condition depending on the amount..

[DasBaldDog]

Originally Posted by Biergut

Does anyone know whether installation of a catch can will void the power-train warranty?

If they don't want to pay for it and they can point to the catch can as the cause, yes...

If the can wasn't emptied and dumped oil straight into the intake, blocked the PCV or anything else to cause the failure, you bet your ass they will deny warranty.

Anyone who says otherwise has clearly never dealt with a hostile or stingy dealership.

[DasBaldDog]

Originally Posted by Biergut

Does anyone know whether installation of a catch can will void the power-train warranty?

To expand,

I've had a few dealerships fight with me tooth and nail to deny a warranty for a cold air intake that the manufacturer sells and installs (both dealerships had cars in their SHOWROOMS with the intake on them) because.... follow along with me here.....

I didn't buy the part from the dealership.


Oh they bitched and moaned and said that it was because I didn't install it properly (yes, seriously) but the one dealership manager said to my face "Maybe if you had bought it from us, we wouldn't be having this conversation"


LEGALLY speaking they have to honor the warranty unless you did something specifically to void it.... that being said, who is going to make them honor it, you?

Not without a giant f'ing court battle... and remember, they have more and better lawyers than you do. If they THINK they can get away with it, expect them to try.


Hell, read Jalopnik's numerous article where the dealership employees do shit like teach their friends how to drive manual in a Focus RS destroying the clutch.... dealership offers free oil change..... or the one where the shop guy STOLE THE CAR out of the garage, totals it, dealership denies responsibility.

[Palutz]

If a catch can was necessary the engineers would have put it in our cars. A lot of part time couch mechanics keep repeating bs claims because they know better than guys that designed the car .. i wouldn’t mess with my car. None of us on this forum will ever hit 7:37 on the Nurburgring or mod the Z mechanically to make drastic changes. If you have warranty then leave the car alone. That’s my 3 cents.

[MrRaZ28]

Your whole post is very presumptuous. Don't speak for everyone. There's plenty the engineers should have done that GM didn't let them do. Such is the case with every car. Watch this vid. Look at how much oil in 1500 miles, then come back and support your statement...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...XhMBfJ2bGf8dz4

[SS Performance]

Many time engineers design great thinks only to have bean counters have them change it. Manufacturing cars is more about making money than engineering great cars.

[macalot]

I guess my point is that if your drivetrain is stock and it hydro locks under warranty they will cover it for sure. That's what I'm interested in.

[DasBaldDog]

Originally Posted by macalot

I guess my point is that if your drivetrain is stock and it hydro locks under warranty they will cover it for sure. That's what I'm interested in.

Can anyone actually propose a situation where enough oil would get sucked into the motor fast enough to cause a hydrolock wherein the dealership wouldn't deny warranty coverage? (Sorry but the "it all got sucked through the PCV" is gonna need some evidence before I believe it).

[pzero]

Thanks for all the input. Very interesting post from everyone. I will do more research on my end before I install one or not.

[Elite Engineering]

First, lets talk about hydrolock and warranties.


Warranty can be denied legally with many can designs on the market IF they defeat, delete, or in any way reduce any of the factory systems functions such as adding a breather or venting to the atmosphere. Also, with most catchcans, they are little more than a container with 2 fittings on them so that design could allow a gulp of oil/gunk large enough to cause a hydrolock if allowed to overfill.




ALL Elite Engineering cans are designed to retain a closed emissions compliant system, and in all the years and thousands and thousands of these in use there has only been 1 actual warranty denied, and it in the end was the tech trying to blame a stuck oil pump relief valve somehow on the can, which is impossible. The customer ended up replacing the oil pump himself, and all was good. You will see GM and Ford dealers selling and installing our E2-X design as well to prevent these issues.


Now, how could oil hydrolock? If it is a can with little to no baffling and designed in such a way as to allow it to fill full a gulp of oil mix could be ingested in a large enough amount to cause this. NO Elite design can as our designs will start to allow small amounts if allowed to fill more than 1/3-1/2 full so they could never reach a full can making this impossible.




As you can see once the liquid trapped reaches the bottom disc baffle it would pull droplets back into suspension and the can will not fill any further, it would simply act like no can was installed so you always want to empty your can at no more than 1/3rd full. This design traps app. 95% of all of the "gun" you don't want ingested, and retains all factory functions of the system.


So, it is against Federal Law to void a warranty for an aftermarket part or service UNLESS the dealer or manufacturer can prove it caused the failure in question, which can never happen with our designs. In every way we improve the function of the OEM PCV system.


As always, email our Engineering Department direct before ordering to make sure you get all the information you need. We make different systems for different applications to ensure you have the best possible match from mild to wild, we have the system.

[MrRaZ28]

A+++ post. Thank you for the explanation! Your system is next on my list and I'll be calling to make sure I get the right solution!

[DasBaldDog]

So I elbow-mathed it....

Assuming you could ingest ALL the oil at once, in one cycle-stroke and all into ONE cylinder.... it would take ~80ml or more to hydrolock an LS7. That's more an a shot (almost 2) of oil into ONE cylinder.

But let's face it, you won't get all the oil into one cylinder in one stroke, not even at a mild rpm, let's say 2000rpm light cruise.

Assuming you lost 15% to manifold linings and the remaining oil was evenly split (I know) among a single cylinder bank.... you would need 80ml X 4 /.85 which is 376ml in ONE cycle stroke. That's half of a 1/5th.

This seems pretty much impossible during normal motor operation without a modification or severe problem.

I mean, if you're losing even just 50ml every 5 minutes (nevermind in <1/2000 of a minute), you'd have no oil left after <1000 miles if averaging 50 mph.



I can't comment on Elite Engineering's designs (they appear well designed/built), but adding a catch-can, especially a poorly designed one only increases your chance of this unlikely scenario. A stock factory PCV system would almost never have a large oil ingestion without some other MAJOR failure with the motor.

[serviceguy]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

First, lets talk about hydrolock and warranties.


Warranty can be denied legally with many can designs on the market IF they defeat, delete, or in any way reduce any of the factory systems functions such as adding a breather or venting to the atmosphere. Also, with most catchcans, they are little more than a container with 2 fittings on them so that design could allow a gulp of oil/gunk large enough to cause a hydrolock if allowed to overfill.




ALL Elite Engineering cans are designed to retain a closed emissions compliant system, and in all the years and thousands and thousands of these in use there has only been 1 actual warranty denied, and it in the end was the tech trying to blame a stuck oil pump relief valve somehow on the can, which is impossible. The customer ended up replacing the oil pump himself, and all was good. You will see GM and Ford dealers selling and installing our E2-X design as well to prevent these issues.


Now, how could oil hydrolock? If it is a can with little to no baffling and designed in such a way as to allow it to fill full a gulp of oil mix could be ingested in a large enough amount to cause this. NO Elite design can as our designs will start to allow small amounts if allowed to fill more than 1/3-1/2 full so they could never reach a full can making this impossible.




As you can see once the liquid trapped reaches the bottom disc baffle it would pull droplets back into suspension and the can will not fill any further, it would simply act like no can was installed so you always want to empty your can at no more than 1/3rd full. This design traps app. 95% of all of the "gun" you don't want ingested, and retains all factory functions of the system.


So, it is against Federal Law to void a warranty for an aftermarket part or service UNLESS the dealer or manufacturer can prove it caused the failure in question, which can never happen with our designs. In every way we improve the function of the OEM PCV system.


As always, email our Engineering Department direct before ordering to make sure you get all the information you need. We make different systems for different applications to ensure you have the best possible match from mild to wild, we have the system.

Well stated ! helps to clear up some misunderstandings.