[95birdible]

I honestly think GM over engineered a blue collar working mans weekend car. Do most of need or want all the bells and whistles that are included in the 6th Gen? I am betting not. We want a reliable performance car, that is safe, and can scoot when we want it to. The Mustang has a winning formula just like the 5th Gen did. I got my 2012 1SS Vert for 35K and have never looked back. To me that was a great bang for the buck. The same car now would cost me almost 50K. Yes it has more content in it but I don't need nor want it. I just want to cruise top down, get on it once in a while, and have it be reliable which it has been in now my 5th summer. When I look at the 6th gen and see the 4cyl is the same price as I paid for my V8, that puts a bad taste in my mouth.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

I honestly think GM over engineered a blue collar working mans weekend car. Do most of need or want all the bells and whistles that are included in the 6th Gen? I am betting not. We want a reliable performance car, that is safe, and can scoot when we want it to. The Mustang has a winning formula just like the 5th Gen did. I got my 2012 1SS Vert for 35K and have never looked back. To me that was a great bang for the buck. The same car now would cost me almost 50K. Yes it has more content in it but I don't need nor want it. I just want to cruise top down, get on it once in a while, and have it be reliable which it has been in now my 5th summer. When I look at the 6th gen and see the 4cyl is the same price as I paid for my V8, that puts a bad taste in my mouth.

I have to agree, and the BMW money that they say it's targeting still sees it as just an overpriced Chevy. It may be a little different if the quality would have improved.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by mr02Z/28

Maybe it's just me but I Do Not want to keep spending more and more on cars, I know folks are going to say that it has more performance, better interior, etc. etc ........ I still would like a good deal and pay less, not more ....

It seems auto manufacturers are one of the only ones left that get away with this. Any other depreciating retail item has gotten better and cheaper. Somehow the big 3 seem to be able to sell us 10 year old tech, call it new and charge thousands more every year for it. It's mystifying.

[HogsFan75]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

I honestly think GM over engineered a blue collar working mans weekend car. Do most of need or want all the bells and whistles that are included in the 6th Gen? I am betting not. We want a reliable performance car, that is safe, and can scoot when we want it to. The Mustang has a winning formula just like the 5th Gen did. I got my 2012 1SS Vert for 35K and have never looked back. To me that was a great bang for the buck. The same car now would cost me almost 50K. Yes it has more content in it but I don't need nor want it. I just want to cruise top down, get on it once in a while, and have it be reliable which it has been in now my 5th summer. When I look at the 6th gen and see the 4cyl is the same price as I paid for my V8, that puts a bad taste in my mouth.

I've seen 4 cylinder turbos for 40 grand. Some guys have reported seeing them more expensive than that.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Thor142

It seems auto manufacturers are one of the only ones left that get away with this. Any other depreciating retail item has gotten better and cheaper. Somehow the big 3 seem to be able to sell us 10 year old tech, call it new and charge thousands more every year for it. It's mystifying.

Because legacy costs keep piling up.

A good portion, I don't know how much, of costs tacked onto new cars are pensions+healthcare, etc for retiring GM employees. Right now GM has roughly 1 million people on some form of pension retirement and healthcare..that's not cheap, and a big reason GM went belly up in 2008 and resulted in the bailouts.

The technology is cheaper now, and the cost that GM pays for things like...LT1's, brembo brake systems, etc..is less. They have to factor in legacy costs and amortize it across nearly every product they sell in their profit margin.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Thor142

It seems auto manufacturers are one of the only ones left that get away with this. Any other depreciating retail item has gotten better and cheaper. Somehow the big 3 seem to be able to sell us 10 year old tech, call it new and charge thousands more every year for it. It's mystifying.

That's because we as consumers are too dumb to not buy their products for these outrageous sums of money. I know I'm done with it. The price of cars and trucks is completely out of hand these days. I saw a new Ford Super duty for 70 grand. How do you justify that purchase? It isn't like that truck will last 10 or 15 years longer than trucks 10 years ago. Hell probably less. It's funny. I signed up for Camaro5 back on 09 because of being very excited about getting a new Camaro ,and the fourm only increased that excitement for the gen5 car. The more I read Camaro6, the more I want to keep what I have, and move away from new cars in general.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I have to agree, and the BMW money that they say it's targeting still sees it as just an overpriced Chevy. It may be a little different if the quality would have improved.

Admittedly, I'm not knowledgeable of all things BMW but...

Please, please, please! Show me the Camaro trim that is targeted at a comparable BMW cost.

[90503]

Originally Posted by motorhead

That's because we as consumers are too dumb to not buy their products for these outrageous sums of money. I know I'm done with it. The price of cars and trucks is completely out of hand these days. I saw a new Ford Super duty for 70 grand. How do you justify that purchase? It isn't like that truck will last 10 or 15 years longer than trucks 10 years ago. Hell probably less. It's funny. I signed up for Camaro5 back on 09 because of being very excited about getting a new Camaro ,and the fourm only increased that excitement for the gen5 car. The more I read Camaro6, the more I want to keep what I have, and move away from new cars in general.

The more expensive cars get, the more the full-price is down-played and the only criteria becomes the "monthly-payment". The average consumer these days lives month to month and the full price is instantly overwhelming.

Massage it down to a manageable monthly amount, and a sale or lease is more likely.

I've never made a car loan, always paid cash. Paying for a car every month for years and years just doesn't set well with me. The novelty wears off too soon. I don't concern myself with a monthly payment....If the full price doesn't fit in my budget, it's a no-sale.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 90503

The more expensive cars get, the more the full-price is down-played and the only criteria becomes the "monthly-payment". The average consumer these days lives month to month and the full price is instantly overwhelming.

Massage it down to a manageable monthly amount, and a sale or lease is more likely.

I've never made a car loan, always paid cash. Paying for a car every month for years and years just doesn't set well with me. The novelty wears off too soon. I don't concern myself with a monthly payment....If the full price doesn't fit in my budget, it's a no-sale.

I live the same way. That's why writing a very large check for something that in the end isn't going to improve my life in any way over what I have now makes no sense. These cars are not improving in any real manner that makes sense to pay so much for them. If they lasted for 30 years or more then they may be worth it. There has to be a point when enough is enough. No one's pay has gone up like the price of new cars have. People that only look at monthly payments are fools. The car manufacturers know that there are plenty of them to sell to also.

If you have to take out any car over a three year note then you truly can't afford it.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Because legacy costs keep piling up.

A good portion, I don't know how much, of costs tacked onto new cars are pensions+healthcare, etc for retiring GM employees. Right now GM has roughly 1 million people on some form of pension retirement and healthcare..that's not cheap, and a big reason GM went belly up in 2008 and resulted in the bailouts.

The technology is cheaper now, and the cost that GM pays for things like...LT1's, brembo brake systems, etc..is less. They have to factor in legacy costs and amortize it across nearly every product they sell in their profit margin.

Maybe some of this ^^

Originally Posted by motorhead

That's because we as consumers are too dumb to not buy their products for these outrageous sums of money. I know I'm done with it. The price of cars and trucks is completely out of hand these days. I saw a new Ford Super duty for 70 grand. How do you justify that purchase? It isn't like that truck will last 10 or 15 years longer than trucks 10 years ago. Hell probably less. It's funny. I signed up for Camaro5 back on 09 because of being very excited about getting a new Camaro ,and the fourm only increased that excitement for the gen5 car. The more I read Camaro6, the more I want to keep what I have, and move away from new cars in general.

Or this ^^^

Originally Posted by 90503

The more expensive cars get, the more the full-price is down-played and the only criteria becomes the "monthly-payment". The average consumer these days lives month to month and the full price is instantly overwhelming.

Massage it down to a manageable monthly amount, and a sale or lease is more likely.

I've never made a car loan, always paid cash. Paying for a car every month for years and years just doesn't set well with me. The novelty wears off too soon. I don't concern myself with a monthly payment....If the full price doesn't fit in my budget, it's a no-sale.

And some of this too.


I just can't fathom some of these threads where people add things up and say well jeeze a $65k ZL1? Thats a bargain for what you're getting. No, no it isn't. It's more than most houses are selling for in the little village next to my town. Nor is $45K a bargain for a 2SS. Hell I sit sometuimes and try to tell myself I got a bargain on my Gen 5 1LE for getting it after the Gen 6 could be ordered but holy hell!!! If you look around nothing in these cars is amazing new groundbreaking tech compared to the rest of the world. For some reason we (me too I'm just a guilty as anyone) put all this value into an automobile that's most likely going to be scraped and melted into tuna cans in less than 20 years. It's nuts. All the super ground breaking tech in the most advanced Camaro could be controlled by my smart phone.

[Kobra_Klutch]

I'm frugal and a car enthusiast at the same time. I love reading about them but I'm not about to pay out the butt for any of them. If that means I don't get to drive over 150 mph, oh well.

I'm sure people are gonna say you only live once and to them I'll say you need to get out more often and further away than you've gone before. I would never be satisfied with a new sports or muscle car because I would always want the latest and greatest. It's funny reading posts of people who purchased their ScatPacks and SRT 392s now that they've released the Challenger T/A 392. Many of them want the newness and this is after many of them stated how happy they were with their new purchases within the last 2 years; it never ends. This is one of the reasons why I love pickups, they give me the power/rumble and utility. To me a sweet pickup is the ultimate vehicle for my money.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Admittedly, I'm not knowledgeable of all things BMW but...

Please, please, please! Show me the Camaro trim that is targeted at a comparable BMW cost.

You got me. I'm not the one claiming that they built this car to play in BMW's playground as been professed in here and other car fourms as an agrument for it's new found MSRP.

I don't put it in that world. Never did and never will. It will always be just a poor man's vette as it always was to me. Only the cost doesn't meet what it is anymore. If I have a bucket of rocks and one day decide to price them as a bucket of diamonds just because I've decided they are equals now, how many people would bite and purchase them? Maybe, I should give it a try. It seems that people these days will believe just about anything if the marketing is done properly. Any marketing experts here want a new project? Lol

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Thor142

I just can't fathom some of these threads where people add things up and say well jeeze a $65k ZL1? Thats a bargain for what you're getting. No, no it isn't. It's more than most houses are selling for in the little village next to my town. Nor is $45K a bargain for a 2SS. Hell I sit sometuimes and try to tell myself I got a bargain on my Gen 5 1LE for getting it after the Gen 6 could be ordered but holy hell!!! If you look around nothing in these cars is amazing new groundbreaking tech compared to the rest of the world. For some reason we (me too I'm just a guilty as anyone) put all this value into an automobile that's most likely going to be scraped and melted into tuna cans in less than 20 years. It's nuts. All the super ground breaking tech in the most advanced Camaro could be controlled by my smart phone.

Exactly. Anyone who buys new 40K car every 3 years could retire as a millionaire if they simply bought a used $2,000 Corolla in their 20's and drove it until the wheels feel off before replacing it with another used one. All they would have to do is bank the new car payments for 30 years and watch the money grow.

[Kobra_Klutch]

I haven't had a car payment since 2011 and I love it.