The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[Unfair]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

The point of the sway bars/springs was that the Camaro ss already out performed the 10GT on every track they raced on..even with the GTS track pack. GM doesnt offer one yet, but a set of sways and springs is all it would take to further widen the gap on the 2010 ss versus the 2010 gt.

What Im getting at here is expect GM to have a suspension package for 2011. They cant shed weight off the car unless they move to a stripper version like the 4th gens (highly unlikely) and theres not a shot in hell they are going to add enough hp to do anything. Because either the vette geeks will cry that it has more advertised hp, or they will have to bump up the vettes hp as well. A simple cam revision would accomplish this but then MPG might go down...ect ect. Bumping hp is a messy road.

So my theory is to expect a suspension package and maybe a more agressive tune to sap out a few extra hp.

As for the Mustang motor being tapped out....in a N/A stand point, it comes with headers, so aftermarket probably arent going to do much of anything. From what Ive heard/read the mustangs stock airbox flows really well, so look for aftermarket CAIs to again not do much. Its a very well designed motor from the factory. But, the fact is that its a 5.0. It down on size and thats its one real flaw...well that and being DOHC.

Mod for mod the mustang is going to take a beating.

So again stock for stock at a drag race....drivers race.
Modded equal mods for both cars...Camaro walks it.

On a road track stock for stock....tbd but I would say mustang wins.
Modded or 2011 equipped with a suspension upgrade I would say drivers race.

Im about straight line performance though and Im calling it now, all this hooting and hollering about the new mustang will blow over quickly once they start hitting the drag strip against 2010-2011 camaros.

And thats my Barack Obama answer for the day.

Honestly I think the 2011 mustang is a 12.5 car, While the camaro has 1 to 3 people running 12.6 i do actually see camaro's in real life, run at 12.9-13.2 I can't see how a 12.5-12.7 car is a driver's race with a 12.9-13.1 car. but then again EVERYTHING is a drivers race, even me vs a funny car, if they blow up I WIN that was a drivers race wasn't it?
The term "driver's race" is so broad you can basically use it for anything it's like the cable guy saying he we be at your house between 8am and 10pm.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by nashstat

Base price for a Mustang GT: $30,495
Base price for a Camaro 1SS: $31,795

According to a C&D Video: This comes with 19" wheels and non-brembo brakes. Brembos alone cost $1700 and that too just for the FRONTS.

Not sure what the 20" upgrades will cost... Anyways I would guess that the Mustang would be at least $1k when specked out to what a 1SS Base Camaro has.

My point being when people say that the Mustang is cheaper than the Camaro, that's because it comes with less features!

There is not 20 inch wheel option for the Mustang, they would be too big and the 19s look perfect.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by cab2g

I'm not trying to start a one sided discussion about how the Camaro rules or how the Mustang sucks. I just want to know if the articles are really as biased as I think...

source: Motor Trend

Yup. They certainly seem Mustang-favorable. Even going so far as to give the Mustang the 'crown' before the '11 Camaro comes out or the '11 Mustang was released!!

But whatever. I really don't care what these people have to say. They are not all-knowing, impartial car-judges. They're journalists with a biased opinion and an outlet with which to express it.

Tenths of a second is splitting hairs in real life...As is complaining about a couple hundred pounds. I know that I prefer the Camaro to the rest: and that's what matters. Read these magazines for entertainment value, and nothing else.

[Stex]

Originally Posted by nashstat

Base price for a Mustang GT: $30,495
Base price for a Camaro 1SS: $31,795

According to a C&D Video: This comes with 19" wheels and non-brembo brakes. Brembos alone cost $1700 and that too just for the FRONTS.

Not sure what the 20" upgrades will cost... Anyways I would guess that the Mustang would be at least $1k when specked out to what a 1SS Base Camaro has.

My point being when people say that the Mustang is cheaper than the Camaro, that's because it comes with less features!

And to get the premium interior you add something like $3,200...C&D said standard interior is very poor...not sure what else comes with the 3,200.

[Unfair]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Tenths of a second is splitting hairs in real life...

Those hairs seem to have the power to drive certain people crazy

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

Time will tell. But again a 3.73 camaro is probably a 12.5 car too. Im not impressed they out geared the 2010 Camaro. a 3.73 l99 would beat or tie a 2011 GT.Factory optioned or not. A couple tenths is a drivers race. Your analogies are flat out lame.

The mustang isnt going average a 12.5. Just like the Camaro isnt going to average a 12.6. Its going to be a drivers race, like I said. Look at the trap speeds. The mustang isnt some magical car.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

The point of the sway bars/springs was that the Camaro ss already out performed the 10GT on every track they raced on..even with the GTS track pack. GM doesnt offer one yet, but a set of sways and springs is all it would take to further widen the gap on the 2010 ss versus the 2010 gt.

What Im getting at here is expect GM to have a suspension package for 2011. They cant shed weight off the car unless they move to a stripper version like the 4th gens (highly unlikely) and theres not a shot in hell they are going to add enough hp to do anything. Because either the vette geeks will cry that it has more advertised hp, or they will have to bump up the vettes hp as well. A simple cam revision would accomplish this but then MPG might go down...ect ect. Bumping hp is a messy road.

So my theory is to expect a suspension package and maybe a more agressive tune to sap out a few extra hp.

As for the Mustang motor being tapped out....in a N/A stand point, it comes with headers, so aftermarket probably arent going to do much of anything. From what Ive heard/read the mustangs stock airbox flows really well, so look for aftermarket CAIs to again not do much. Its a very well designed motor from the factory. But, the fact is that its a 5.0. It down on size and thats its one real flaw...well that and being DOHC.

Mod for mod the mustang is going to take a beating.

So again stock for stock at a drag race....drivers race.
Modded equal mods for both cars...Camaro walks it.

On a road track stock for stock....tbd but I would say mustang wins.
Modded or 2011 equipped with a suspension upgrade I would say drivers race.

Im about straight line performance though and Im calling it now, all this hooting and hollering about the new mustang will blow over quickly once they start hitting the drag strip against 2010-2011 camaros.

And thats my Barack Obama answer for the day.

you are assuming a hell of a lot there. For starters we don't know the 5.0 is tapped out, it has a lot of tech there and I am sure the tune is pretty mild as it still has to meet emmisions and last the warranty period (manufacturers always do safe tunes). Also if you start modding then the Mustang can too, remember even if the Camaro does respond better to mods it has to first match the Mustang before it can beat it. And to the suspension, I am sure there will be aftermarket suspensions to take the GT to a higher level also, so until GM offers something factory, it's a moot point. And to the last assumptions, there is nothing from GM even hinting of an upgraded suspension, it may happen, but I would not hold my breath.

[Unfair]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

Time will tell. But again a 3.73 camaro is probably a 12.5 car too. Im not impressed they out geared the 2010 Camaro. a 3.73 l99 would beat or tie a 2011 GT.Factory optioned or not. A couple tenths is a drivers race. Your analogies are flat out lame.

The mustang isnt going average a 12.5. Just like the Camaro isnt going to average a 12.6. Its going to be a drivers race, like I said. Look at the trap speeds. The mustang isnt some magical car.

OK man, cool no need to get angry it's just a car.
these are not people we are talking about

whatever happens happens i'm going off stuff I see in real life.
if these lame magazine editors got a 13.1 and a 12.7 I think some good drivers can pull better numbers off.

[Inferno2SS]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

Time will tell. But again a 3.73 camaro is probably a 12.5 car too. Im not impressed they out geared the 2010 Camaro. a 3.73 l99 would beat or tie a 2011 GT.Factory optioned or not. A couple tenths is a drivers race. Your analogies are flat out lame.

The mustang isnt going average a 12.5. Just like the Camaro isnt going to average a 12.6. Its going to be a drivers race, like I said. Look at the trap speeds. The mustang isnt some magical car.

I guess I am one of the few who actually likes the way the Camaro is geared. I dont go to the track so maybe that is the reason. Some sports cars I felt like I was shifting almost as quickly as I get into a gear. Going 50 in first and over 70 in second is perfect for me.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by syr74

MT reported observed mileage and mileage as rated by the epa which is 17/26 for the GT manual whichever gear set you have, I'm not sure what else they could have done here?



It says the same thing for Mustang GT, which has a recommended octane rating of 91. If it's true and hurting the Camaro, then it's hurting the Mustang too.



There is no Track Pack for 2011, and the 3.73:1 gears are going to have a higher take rate than 10%. Either way, it's factory offering and complaining about is just sounds like sour grapes.



Mustang does not and, according to Ford, will not offer 20 inch rims since they offer no performance advantage on cars of this size.

As for price parity, option for option the Mustang costs less which isn't really a surprise. A Mustang with the Brembo brake package does cost more than the base Camaro SS because Ford wont let you get the brake package without getting the Premium package which includes leather, etc.

So, to put is simply,Ford will sell you a 3.73:1 equipped Mustang GT for less than GM will sell you a base Camaro 1SS, but they wont let you order the Brembo brake package on that trim level. GM will sell you a base Camaro 1SS for less than a Brembo equipped Mustang GT, but that Camaro will have much less in the way of feature content since you have to opt for a GT Premium to get the brakes. If you option up the Camaro to match the Mustang Premium in terms of feature content, the Camaro will cost more even if you add the Brembo brakes to the Mustang.



Nobody associated with the 5.0L engine program, whether that be as a Ford employee or as a contractor, has suggested this. In fact, they have suggested the exact opposite, that the 5.0L is running in a very mild state of tune.

The 'it's tapped out' argument just sounds like wishful thinking.

You can get the Brembo brake package on the base GT as wellwhich basically brings it in line with the 1SS in pricing.

[Inferno2SS]

Originally Posted by Unfair

OK man, cool no need to get angry it's just a car.
these are not people we are talking about

whatever happens happens i'm going off stuff I see in real life.
if these lame magazine editors got a 13.1 and a 12.7 I think some good drivers can pull better numbers off.

That is the other issue, they obviously arent going to hit the exact same times every run and most likely are using different drivers. They originally had the Camaro at 13.0, then 12.9 vs the GT500 now suddenly it is 13.1. Seems kind of convenient to me, that it is running its worse times vs 2011 and its best time vs the GT500.

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by Inferno2SS

That is the other issue, they obviously arent going to hit the exact same times every run and most likely are using different drivers. They originally had the Camaro at 13.0, then 12.9 vs the GT500 now suddenly it is 13.1. Seems kind of convenient to me, that it is running its worse times vs 2011 and its best time vs the GT500.

I know I shouldn't but damn I'm going to . To add to that test the SS vs GT500 all the ford boys when their king only did a tenth better bashed the hell out of motortrend and anything else that could be said was said. Now MT is in favor and now its well thats right and whatever reason to make their point correct.

Just find it funny how one article can be treated as gold and the other is complete shit when it comes to making a valid argument. If anything after the SS/Gt500 test we shouldn't even listen to anything MT has to say.

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

Originally Posted by Stew

you are assuming a hell of a lot there. For starters we don't know the 5.0 is tapped out, it has a lot of tech there and I am sure the tune is pretty mild as it still has to meet emmisions and last the warranty period (manufacturers always do safe tunes). Also if you start modding then the Mustang can too, remember even if the Camaro does respond better to mods it has to first match the Mustang before it can beat it. And to the suspension, I am sure there will be aftermarket suspensions to take the GT to a higher level also, so until GM offers something factory, it's a moot point. And to the last assumptions, there is nothing from GM even hinting of an upgraded suspension, it may happen, but I would not hold my breath.

First you tell me that Im assuming a lot, then in your second sentence you say "Im am sure the tune is pretty mild". LOL.

Anyways any monkey knows a dohc motor runs more efficent than an ohv motor. Theres no questioning that.

As for the suspension, the mustang is supposed to be pretty good now that the track pack parts are standard equipment. What that means is that you will probably get less improvement per dollar spent over the Camaro who everyone knows comes with some chincy sways and rides a bit too high.

As for my suspension assumption.....until a few days ago there was nothing even hinting of the 2011 camaro coming out. Silence doesnt mean they are doing nothing.

Do you expect revised heads/exhaust manifolds/cam specs to bump hp on the Camaro/Corvette? Or would it be easier to tune in the suspension and make a new gear option available?

Hmmm spend tons of money on motor/ tuning adjustments in hopes of making enough hp to beat the mustang(even though on paper and all test results show its currently a drivers race)

or


or


or, option B. Make a simple gear swap that will absorb any straight line performance the mustang may or may not have and change the springs/sways to help with the Camaros performance characteristics.

So engine mods that would involve recertifying the motor for the camaros ls3 the vettes ls3 (any hp bump will almost automaticlly be done to the vette too) and the camaros l99 or swap a gear to catch the opposition?

You tell me which is easier/ cheaper and faster to do?

Or get this shit. They could do the gear swap option and add hp and punch the lights out of the mustang.

How does $1,000 for just cams sound to you to try and catch that? How are those other mustang mod motors responding to bolt-ons, its like those things are in phucking comas. Have you seen them?

Anyways, 2011 Camaro 3.93(manual) 3.73 (auto) is the only option it will need for it to beat the 2011 GT. You can sig that if you want, cause thats all its gonna take.

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

Originally Posted by ssump29

we shouldn't even listen to anything MT has to say.

QFT.