will there be a Z28 Camaro

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Pill,
I usually enjoy your respectful perspective on things; usually just off center towards the Mustang, however i gotta call you out on this as pure Fanboy propaganda!

[thePill]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Pill,
I usually enjoy your respectful perspective on things; usually just off center towards the Mustang, however i gotta call you out on this as pure Fanboy propaganda!

I am obviously going to defend Americas pony car just I would defend the Corvette against its regular, overpriced GT class competitors. The truth is, and this will be painful to almost every member here, is that the Camaro was introduced just alittle too late to capitalize on big profits. About 8 months ago I posted on this very website that GM needed to be quicker to release such models (convertible and the Z28 now ZL1). GM obviously played the big card first which was a production vehicle close to the concept. In my opinion, the convertible should have been released alongside the couple while demand was high. They could have easily sold the exact amount of coupes they did in 2009 and turned those 29,000 no sales into convertibles. I can honestly say that 10-15k convertible would have sold on top of the coupes and would had minimal affect on coupe production. Now, the production numbers are split (I am making an informed guesstimation) and say that vert/coupe production is split 20/80. With only 7500 verts sold, at years end (unless production becomes very limited: see July production) there will be around 10k unsold convertibles based on a 100k unit production year. Convertible sales should tailor off drastically through the fall and winter and this is not good.

Where does the Z28 fit in when production is 50% V6 coupe, 30% SS and 20% Convertible (65/35 V6/V8)? The ZL1 will take 5-10k out of those numbers now and remember, GM only sells 70% of what they build... Do they reduce production of the best selling V6 coupe? Do they drive the SS into extinction? I would have to see the profit margin on each model to determine which model takes the hit but I can guarantee that it will not be the V6, 3 out of 4 Camaros built are V6 cars... If the Z28 does come out, it will be to sustain slumping sales so 2013/2014 would be my bet since sales will be at Challenger levels. Over the last winter, sales were getting that low anyway but it is evidence that new models don't do much for overall sales like it was expected. The ZL1 will have less of a sales impact than the convertible did so I don't believe GM will R&D another car just to sell 4-5000k, they just do not have the profits generated from this Gen to do so.

[LOWDOWN]

Pill...take a pill...

"GM only sells 70% of what they build"? Where does the other 30% go...landfill?!

Your "majority" Sales figure(s) for V6 Camaros are actually the percentages for MUSTANG. Camaro has enjoyed a better-than-50% SS build-rate since intro and, at times, has been as high as 2/3.

However...and this was important in the past and will be again, very soon...Mustang's continued, uninterrupted success is DIRECTLY due to its ability to market V6 versions that are attractive AND considered great value by "sporty-car" buyers...particularly females. Gen-4 F-cars suffered from "too much tech" (ABS standard, 6-speed manuals, LS1 etc.) relative to the Mustang, and its price differential helped drive business to the Mustang Store...and drove the Camaro into (temporary) asylum (and the Firebird into oblivion).

But the Camaro is back...in a BIG way! With massive pent-up demand! That, if NOT handled, and nurtured, and coddled, and massaged correctly, could peter out again...

Have NO FEAR!! The Camaro Team is "on the beam!" More Models to satisfy more potential Owners (NOT just fanboys/girls). Convertibles. Monster motors with hellacious handling. V6 specialty Packages (coming...). And, the "missing link"...the MOST iconic badge of ALL...yes!...Z/28!!!

Gen-6? More "Mustang-sized", built on the Alpha platform. With Mustang-matching features and prices...just like Gen-5 has Mustang in the crosshairs. As it has pretty much always been...and so shall it continue...

BTW, it was pretty difficult to get "commitments" of any kind (including sustained employment!!) from early '08 through Spring-'09 and Camaro's SOP. Many, including me, are simply grateful the Camaro "survived" to see the light of day...in ANY form or fashion, let alone the worthy version we enjoy, here. You DO enjoy the Camaro, don't you, Pill?!

[BoostedX2]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Pill...take a pill...

"GM only sells 70% of what they build"? Where does the other 30% go...landfill?!

Your "majority" Sales figure(s) for V6 Camaros are actually the percentages for MUSTANG. Camaro has enjoyed a better-than-50% SS build-rate since intro and, at times, has been as high as 2/3.

However...and this was important in the past and will be again, very soon...Mustang's continued, uninterrupted success is DIRECTLY due to its ability to market V6 versions that are attractive AND considered great value by "sporty-car" buyers...particularly females. Gen-4 F-cars suffered from "too much tech" (ABS standard, 6-speed manuals, LS1 etc.) relative to the Mustang, and its price differential helped drive business to the Mustang Store...and drove the Camaro into (temporary) asylum (and the Firebird into oblivion).

But the Camaro is back...in a BIG way! With massive pent-up demand! That, if NOT handled, and nurtured, and coddled, and massaged correctly, could peter out again...

Have NO FEAR!! The Camaro Team is "on the beam!" More Models to satisfy more potential Owners (NOT just fanboys/girls). Convertibles. Monster motors with hellacious handling. V6 specialty Packages (coming...). And, the "missing link"...the MOST iconic badge of ALL...yes!...Z/28!!!

Gen-6? More "Mustang-sized", built on the Alpha platform. With Mustang-matching features and prices...just like Gen-5 has Mustang in the crosshairs. As it has pretty much always been...and so shall it continue...

BTW, it was pretty difficult to get "commitments" of any kind (including sustained employment!!) from early '08 through Spring-'09 and Camaro's SOP. Many, including me, are simply grateful the Camaro "survived" to see the light of day...in ANY form or fashion, let alone the worthy version we enjoy, here. You DO enjoy the Camaro, don't you, Pill?!

[Rogan]

I originally thought GM came out too late with Camaro in order to out sell the Mustang. However GM beats the Mustangs sales with the Camaro.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

pill, I have to disagree on a couple of points and give a counter view on some sales issues.

first. being in the military I have to say it's the crowd you run with. I have known more F-body guys than mustang fans. but for the most part each respected the other group. you did have a couple jack asses but hey that's normal.

as for the sales numbers. the economy still sucks. people that want these cars can't honestly afford them for the most part. the ones that can are buying. I honestly believe if we weren't so close to 10% unemployment more sports cars would sale. the camaro is still selling more then the mustang and that's even with a newer version of the stang out. the verts are for people that don't have to worry about cold, or a second car. it's never going to sale well compared to coupes. If I could afford one I'd buy a vert right now. but trying to pay off debt and save for a possible move soon (owning a house and pcsing sucks) it is impossible to afford another car (currently own a duramax and a bike).

I believe people are saving their money more if they have it. if they don't then obviously they aren't buying. but to say the 5th gen isn't aging well is. . .lets say not exactly right.

I'm in that group that's waiting for some money to show up. I would have bought an SS when they first came out, but just couldn't put myself in a bad place financially. Things are going well, and I'm hoping to order a 2012 2SS towards the very end of that model year. My plans could change if I make more or less money, or if they release info on a Z28. The ZL1 is great, but more car than I will ever use and I'm hoping if a Z28 is released that it will be closer in price to an SS than a ZL1. I personally know people that are in my situation, and I'm sure they're not hard to find on this site so I think it is way too soon to say that this car is losing interest.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Pill...take a pill...

"GM only sells 70% of what they build"? Where does the other 30% go...landfill?!

Your "majority" Sales figure(s) for V6 Camaros are actually the percentages for MUSTANG. Camaro has enjoyed a better-than-50% SS build-rate since intro and, at times, has been as high as 2/3.

However...and this was important in the past and will be again, very soon...Mustang's continued, uninterrupted success is DIRECTLY due to its ability to market V6 versions that are attractive AND considered great value by "sporty-car" buyers...particularly females. Gen-4 F-cars suffered from "too much tech" (ABS standard, 6-speed manuals, LS1 etc.) relative to the Mustang, and its price differential helped drive business to the Mustang Store...and drove the Camaro into (temporary) asylum (and the Firebird into oblivion).

But the Camaro is back...in a BIG way! With massive pent-up demand! That, if NOT handled, and nurtured, and coddled, and massaged correctly, could peter out again...

Have NO FEAR!! The Camaro Team is "on the beam!" More Models to satisfy more potential Owners (NOT just fanboys/girls). Convertibles. Monster motors with hellacious handling. V6 specialty Packages (coming...). And, the "missing link"...the MOST iconic badge of ALL...yes!...Z/28!!!

Gen-6? More "Mustang-sized", built on the Alpha platform. With Mustang-matching features and prices...just like Gen-5 has Mustang in the crosshairs. As it has pretty much always been...and so shall it continue...

BTW, it was pretty difficult to get "commitments" of any kind (including sustained employment!!) from early '08 through Spring-'09 and Camaro's SOP. Many, including me, are simply grateful the Camaro "survived" to see the light of day...in ANY form or fashion, let alone the worthy version we enjoy, here. You DO enjoy the Camaro, don't you, Pill?!

In 2010, GM sold 76% (horrible) of the Camaro's that it produced leaving 29,000 Camaro’s unsold after a 16 month model year. Last year, the production numbers were dropped but so did sales which resulted in a 85% (still pretty bad) sales ratio over production. As of today, 240,170 Camaro's have been produced and 199,199 have been sold leaving 40,971 unsold 2010 and 2011 Camaro’s at this moment which is about 83%. One out of every five Camaro's do not sell which in turn, destroys the profit generated by 12 Camaro that did sell (assuming a $2500 profit at invoice). This is how companies go bankrupt... The left over cars were left to sit on the lots as the new model years rolled in. Since GM cannot give away factory incentives with the measly profit ratio the Camaro produced, it is left up to the dealers to drop the mark up and possible go below MSRP to eliminate leftover’s. As of 2011, the V6 Camaro made 66% of all sales.. You are thinking about the 2010 which was 50/50 split between the SS and the V6.

Now you want GM to throw in a Z28? They would need to reduce production and stabilize the profit margin before spending anymore money on a niche vehicle again. Especially after being sapped by the ZL1... If sales become too bad we may see a sticker package Z28 (like the 45th Ann) in desperation to keep the brand floating. By winter, sales will be at the Challenger numbers and production will mirror that.

There was a time that I like the Camaro, then GM threw in the towel despite the enthusiast.. only to produce one of the ugliest, overweight and out of shape Camaro almost 10 years later… If the lines were softer (see 2006 Camaro concept) and they named it the Chevelle I would have bought it…

Edit: Just FYI, the Mustang V8s (GT500 and Boss included) make up over 70% of sales. Ford does not have any V6's to sell. If they did, sales could be 20-30% higher than they actually are. I have a feeling that you haven't looked at the sales charts posted on here for awhile...

[Cam#7]

Originally Posted by thePill

There was a time that I like the Camaro, then GM threw in the towel despite the enthusiast.. only to produce one of the ugliest, overweight and out of shape Camaro almost 10 years later… If the lines were softer (see 2006 Camaro concept) and they named it the Chevelle I would have bought it…

...

Sounds like it's time to ride your PONY off into the sunset and out of this forum !!!!!!!!!!

[2cnd chance]

The Pill has become Bipolar?!

[mike25]

Originally Posted by thePill

In 2010, GM sold 76% (horrible) of the Camaro's that it produced leaving 29,000 Camaro’s unsold after a 16 month model year. Last year, the production numbers were dropped but so did sales which resulted in a 85% (still pretty bad) sales ratio over production. As of today, 240,170 Camaro's have been produced and 199,199 have been sold leaving 40,971 unsold 2010 and 2011 Camaro’s at this moment which is about 83%. One out of every five Camaro's do not sell which in turn, destroys the profit generated by 12 Camaro that did sell (assuming a $2500 profit at invoice). This is how companies go bankrupt... The left over cars were left to sit on the lots as the new model years rolled in. Since GM cannot give away factory incentives with the measly profit ratio the Camaro produced, it is left up to the dealers to drop the mark up and possible go below MSRP to eliminate leftover’s. As of 2011, the V6 Camaro made 66% of all sales.. You are thinking about the 2010 which was 50/50 split between the SS and the V6.

Now you want GM to throw in a Z28? They would need to reduce production and stabilize the profit margin before spending anymore money on a niche vehicle again. Especially after being sapped by the ZL1... If sales become too bad we may see a sticker package Z28 (like the 45th Ann) in desperation to keep the brand floating. By winter, sales will be at the Challenger numbers and production will mirror that.

There was a time that I like the Camaro, then GM threw in the towel despite the enthusiast.. only to produce one of the ugliest, overweight and out of shape Camaro almost 10 years later… If the lines were softer (see 2006 Camaro concept) and they named it the Chevelle I would have bought it…

Edit: Just FYI, the Mustang V8s (GT500 and Boss included) make up over 70% of sales. Ford does not have any V6's to sell. If they did, sales could be 20-30% higher than they actually are. I have a feeling that you haven't looked at the sales charts posted on here for awhile...

And there was also talk of scaling down production at the mustang plant, so gm isnt the only one not selling vehicles..

[M Miller69]

Would like to see GM produce a Z/28 to compete(and beat) with the Boss 302 Mustang. And I know they could pull it off. But if it will happen? only time will tell.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by thePill

In 2010, GM sold 76% (horrible) of the Camaro's that it produced leaving 29,000 Camaro’s unsold after a 16 month model year. Last year, the production numbers were dropped but so did sales which resulted in a 85% (still pretty bad) sales ratio over production. As of today, 240,170 Camaro's have been produced and 199,199 have been sold leaving 40,971 unsold 2010 and 2011 Camaro’s at this moment which is about 83%. One out of every five Camaro's do not sell which in turn, destroys the profit generated by 12 Camaro that did sell (assuming a $2500 profit at invoice). This is how companies go bankrupt... The left over cars were left to sit on the lots as the new model years rolled in. Since GM cannot give away factory incentives with the measly profit ratio the Camaro produced, it is left up to the dealers to drop the mark up and possible go below MSRP to eliminate leftover’s. As of 2011, the V6 Camaro made 66% of all sales.. You are thinking about the 2010 which was 50/50 split between the SS and the V6.

Now you want GM to throw in a Z28? They would need to reduce production and stabilize the profit margin before spending anymore money on a niche vehicle again. Especially after being sapped by the ZL1... If sales become too bad we may see a sticker package Z28 (like the 45th Ann) in desperation to keep the brand floating. By winter, sales will be at the Challenger numbers and production will mirror that.

There was a time that I like the Camaro, then GM threw in the towel despite the enthusiast.. only to produce one of the ugliest, overweight and out of shape Camaro almost 10 years later… If the lines were softer (see 2006 Camaro concept) and they named it the Chevelle I would have bought it…

Edit: Just FYI, the Mustang V8s (GT500 and Boss included) make up over 70% of sales. Ford does not have any V6's to sell. If they did, sales could be 20-30% higher than they actually are. I have a feeling that you haven't looked at the sales charts posted on here for awhile...

What? So he's saying the camaro is a sales failure? LOL, fail. Then what the heck would he call the mustang? With about an 11 million cars sold in 2010 the camaro did fantastic in sales in a down economy with about 130k of them in consumer's hands. Compare that to the 150k 2005 mustang sold in a market that at the time sold about 16 million cars annually if I remember correctly. Also the camaro did that at a higher price point with no incentives.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

The Pill has become Bipolar?!

Hmmm, interesting question Chance, the behavior is like this movie character...with a surreptitious Ford bias.

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by PAUL SS

The ZL1 is your Z28 for now, like it or not. How much different could a Z28 be from a ZL1? If there will be a Z28 you wont see it untill the 2nd or 3rd year of GEN6.

x2

..oh ya, and New Mustangs suck. (except shelby's)...(and maybe Boss's)..ok but thats it. the rest suck for sure.