!!! ARP Head Bolt Broken off in Block!!! - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Russell James · 04-25-2018, 06:16 PM

That is a good video of an Easy Out extractor. You can see when the thread bind releases the stud actually spins in farther. Which shows there is not much other than the thread bind holding it in, which releases once you start drilling or tapping on it.

christianchevell · 04-25-2018, 06:46 PM

Yup they make Bolt extractors just for that.... Bummer you broke head bolts. TTY bolts for me are a one time use thing and others may make bolts you can supposedly use over and over but that's not always true in cases.

Torqueing things in rounds in sequence is the way to go on heads I like to go from the inside bolts outward like most sequences. Imagine being a ford f 150 owner who has spit spark plugs out of the heads; triton v-8s , or had the spark plugs break off inside way before their supposed 100k life....then you can see life is not that bad with just a broken bolt, but for me a fresh head torque requires fresh bolts and I have not had new head bolts ever break....GM or ARP. Now crusty 20-30 year old SBC/BBC heads on a original block that could happen especially if someone had to torque them again over the years. A aluminum head on a cast iron block can and will walk out bolts.... been there fixed that.....and re-torgueing from thermal expansion over time is not bad just a fact of life with dissimilar metals a 25+ K check is a good thing to insure no head gasket leaks/ blowouts.

Easy outs..been there done that, and Helicoils for repairs...and I only owned a f-150 once a 2006 Harley one ,had only 305HP or something and was nice and all but was gutless really with AWD and nice rims and such for looks..the next year they supercharged it just because Ford even knew its was lame...LOL 5.4.....YUp and paid $400 for a sparkplug change at 60k as one broke off inside and four total just getting them out at the Dealer...And get this Eventually got a settlement for like 1/2 the cost due to their being forced via class action lawsuit....LOL Yup Found on Roadside Dead ...They have gotten away with some real crap before but not this time....

13SSCamaro · 04-25-2018, 06:52 PM

Did you clean out the holes before you inserted the bolts?

Moto-Mojo · 04-25-2018, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell James

Did you use the ARP lube, and according to the instructions only on one side of the washer. If the wrong lube or on both sides of the washer... the actual tq being applied can be way more the tq wrench is reading. I've watched people grease the hell out of head bolts with assembly lube and then procede to snap several bolts or studs in half. Which is why ARP came out with their own lube and directions to use only on one side of the washer so tq is not affected.

Getting that bolt out... I'd get a good easy out extractor set. Name brand, made in USA... ie snap on, matco....

A bolt, with no head on it, has hardly any tq holding it in. The threads are in a bind. They are being pulled up. So.... follow the instructions in the extractor set to drill into the bolt while it is still in thread bind. Once you get that hole started...take a punch and punch down with a sharp rap to help unbind the threads. They are being bound up... tap down. Then use the extractor to grab into that hole started and spin it out.

If you approach it like that and stick with it...I bet you'll get it out. People think a broken bolt has tons of torque on it.... but with no head, it virturally has none. Just the little bind that the threads are in. Once you tap down to unbind the threads.... it'll spin out. Which extractors are good at grabbing and spinning out. Shouldn't have to retap the threads. Avoid the temptation to go crazy with a big drill bit....stick with the extractor until it spins out.

I've been a shadetree DIY-er most of my life and broke off a few bolts along the way. This is something I never considered but makes too much sense - that a headless, broken bolt has little torque on it. Thanks for the information and GOOD LUCK OP!

111MOTORSPORTS · 04-25-2018, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booneSS13

I had them on the phone and they were very unapologetic and unhelpful. These bolts were only used once with 11k miles on them. This is the second time I've had an ARP head bolt break on me as well. I would definitely be skeptical. There's a BUNCH of threads on Yellowbullet.com and Ls1tech.com with people reporting broken head bolts & studs

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Second?! Thats crazy! We use ARP on everything never had any issues. Maybe you are torqueing incorrectly? If you retorque the same one twice with the 180 degrees extra it will break for sure. Also, maybe you wrench is not accurate? Best of luck to you man! Im about to put heads on my car and this is one of my nightmares lol

DBHWT · 04-26-2018, 06:33 PM

How bout using a drill bit same size as head bolt to just get the broken bolt top cleaned up to be able to use a smaller bit and then EZ out....get the top cleaned up, so that the smaller size drill bit doesn't "walk" all over the top of the broken bolt when drilling out for the EZ out

Quicksilver2SS · 04-28-2018, 05:58 PM

I would go to a machine shop with the head gasket, show them which hole the broken bolt is in, they can machine you a block of steel [jig] with 3 holes the middle one being your guide hole to drill straight and dead center. The other 2 holes are to bolt the machined block to your engine block. I like using the square style extractors from Proto. Square , ,straight and center are very important here , you can't have the drill walk or go in at an angle.

booneSS13 · 04-28-2018, 06:07 PM

Well I've been drilling the bolt out because of the orientation that it's in and being back by the firewall. I used all of you guys advice which really helped a lot but unfortunately I didn't have any luck drilling it in the center if the bolt. Idk what else to do. I'm almost thinking I'm going to have to pull the motor before I do any more damage. Any more ideas?

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

zz430camaro · 04-28-2018, 09:22 PM

You are going to have to pull it out and fix it somehow, probably at a engine shop.

111MOTORSPORTS · 04-29-2018, 12:03 AM

Yep looks like best bet is to send it to a machine shop, they can put it in a jig and re drill that one hole and tap it

TheFlyingBananaSS · 04-29-2018, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell James

Did you use the ARP lube, and according to the instructions only on one side of the washer. If the wrong lube or on both sides of the washer... the actual tq being applied can be way more the tq wrench is reading. I've watched people grease the hell out of head bolts with assembly lube and then procede to snap several bolts or studs in half. Which is why ARP came out with their own lube and directions to use only on one side of the washer so tq is not affected.

Getting that bolt out... I'd get a good easy out extractor set. Name brand, made in USA... ie snap on, matco....

A bolt, with no head on it, has hardly any tq holding it in. The threads are in a bind. They are being pulled up. So.... follow the instructions in the extractor set to drill into the bolt while it is still in thread bind. Once you get that hole started...take a punch and punch down with a sharp rap to help unbind the threads. They are being bound up... tap down. Then use the extractor to grab into that hole started and spin it out.

If you approach it like that and stick with it...I bet you'll get it out. People think a broken bolt has tons of torque on it.... but with no head, it virturally has none. Just the little bind that the threads are in. Once you tap down to unbind the threads.... it'll spin out. Which extractors are good at grabbing and spinning out. Shouldn't have to retap the threads. Avoid the temptation to go crazy with a big drill bit....stick with the extractor until it spins out.

Excellent advice!

christianchevell · 04-29-2018, 09:50 AM

Stop messing with a drill bit and get a extractor. It has reversed teeth to bite into the mess you called a bolt.

booneSS13 · 04-29-2018, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christianchevell

Stop messing with a drill bit and get a extractor. It has reversed teeth to bite into the mess you called a bolt.

I tried these with not much luck. Probably because I had a really hard time getting centered onto the bolt due to the a/c line being in the way. This is a total bummer. Usually broken off bolts spin right out.

mmaattppllaayy · 04-29-2018, 02:06 PM

Don’t waste your time with any of those BS extractors. They are not going to work. What you need to do is get a buddy with a welder to come and take a nut that is the same size as the hole. Slowly build weld up until it gets close to flush with the deck surface. Once flush sit the washer over the hole and weld the hell out of it to the weld that you built up. Then most of the time you can take an impact gun and try to buzz the nut off. Don’t use a regular socket wrench you need to use an impact. I have used this method to get broken exhaust manifold bolts out of ls cylinder heads many times.
Also use a mig welder not an arc welder.
Another note. Let the weld cool completely as it will be expanded slightly because of the heat.

04-25-2018, 06:46 PM	#16
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,587 View My Garage	Yup they make Bolt extractors just for that.... Bummer you broke head bolts. TTY bolts for me are a one time use thing and others may make bolts you can supposedly use over and over but that's not always true in cases. Torqueing things in rounds in sequence is the way to go on heads I like to go from the inside bolts outward like most sequences. Imagine being a ford f 150 owner who has spit spark plugs out of the heads; triton v-8s , or had the spark plugs break off inside way before their supposed 100k life....then you can see life is not that bad with just a broken bolt, but for me a fresh head torque requires fresh bolts and I have not had new head bolts ever break....GM or ARP. Now crusty 20-30 year old SBC/BBC heads on a original block that could happen especially if someone had to torque them again over the years. A aluminum head on a cast iron block can and will walk out bolts.... been there fixed that.....and re-torgueing from thermal expansion over time is not bad just a fact of life with dissimilar metals a 25+ K check is a good thing to insure no head gasket leaks/ blowouts. Easy outs..been there done that, and Helicoils for repairs...and I only owned a f-150 once a 2006 Harley one ,had only 305HP or something and was nice and all but was gutless really with AWD and nice rims and such for looks..the next year they supercharged it just because Ford even knew its was lame...LOL 5.4.....YUp and paid $400 for a sparkplug change at 60k as one broke off inside and four total just getting them out at the Dealer...And get this Eventually got a settlement for like 1/2 the cost due to their being forced via class action lawsuit....LOL Yup Found on Roadside Dead ...They have gotten away with some real crap before but not this time.... __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

04-25-2018, 06:52 PM	#17
13SSCamaro Drives: 2013 Camaro SS Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: South Florida Posts: 254	Did you clean out the holes before you inserted the bolts? __________________ 2013 SS M6, TSP Stage 3 231/246 cam kit, TSP Trunion upgrade, Cold Air Inductions CAI, VMAX PTB, TSP 1 7/8 Long tube headers and high flow cats, Corsa Xtreme ZL1 Catback exhaust, Elite E2-X Catch can, Trick Flow Gen-X 255 heads milled 0.025 and valve job, GPI rod mod and ported intake, ID850 injectors,ZL1 fuel pump, Flex sensor and E-85, Mantic 9000 and 1LE 3.91 diff 512rwhp/462rwtq

04-28-2018, 06:07 PM	#22
booneSS13 Drives: 2013 Camaro SS LS3 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Davenport IA Posts: 718	Well I've been drilling the bolt out because of the orientation that it's in and being back by the firewall. I used all of you guys advice which really helped a lot but unfortunately I didn't have any luck drilling it in the center if the bolt. Idk what else to do. I'm almost thinking I'm going to have to pull the motor before I do any more damage. Any more ideas? Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk __________________ *Romans 5:8* But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. -Fastlane Cold Air Intake, NPP cat back exhaust, Stainless Works LT Headers, 2r max camshaft, Stage 3 Ported Heads (Manley Stainless steel values, titanium retainers, dual valve springs, bronze guides), Wiseco Forged Pistons, K1 Forged Rods, Clevite Bearings, Factory Crankshaft, Comp Cams rocker arm trunion kit, Morel 5315 lifters, JP performance single billet timing chain, Melling oil pump, Spec stage 3+ clutch and flywheel, BMR trailing arms, Nitto 555r 305/35/20.

04-29-2018, 09:50 AM	#26
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,587 View My Garage	Stop messing with a drill bit and get a extractor. It has reversed teeth to bite into the mess you called a bolt. __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

04-26-2018, 06:33 PM	#20
DBHWT Drives: 2013 SS 1LE Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Cincinnati / N KY area Posts: 559	How bout using a drill bit same size as head bolt to just get the broken bolt top cleaned up to be able to use a smaller bit and then EZ out....get the top cleaned up, so that the smaller size drill bit doesn't "walk" all over the top of the broken bolt when drilling out for the EZ out

04-28-2018, 05:58 PM	#21
Quicksilver2SS Drives: 2SS/RS LS3 NPP Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Sacramento Posts: 227	I would go to a machine shop with the head gasket, show them which hole the broken bolt is in, they can machine you a block of steel [jig] with 3 holes the middle one being your guide hole to drill straight and dead center. The other 2 holes are to bolt the machined block to your engine block. I like using the square style extractors from Proto. Square , ,straight and center are very important here , you can't have the drill walk or go in at an angle.

04-28-2018, 09:22 PM	#23
zz430camaro Drives: 2015 1LE Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,485	You are going to have to pull it out and fix it somehow, probably at a engine shop.

04-29-2018, 12:03 AM	#24
111MOTORSPORTS Drives: Black 2015 rs Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Bright,IN Posts: 271	Yep looks like best bet is to send it to a machine shop, they can put it in a jig and re drill that one hole and tap it

04-29-2018, 02:06 PM	#28
mmaattppllaayy Drives: '10 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 428	Don’t waste your time with any of those BS extractors. They are not going to work. What you need to do is get a buddy with a welder to come and take a nut that is the same size as the hole. Slowly build weld up until it gets close to flush with the deck surface. Once flush sit the washer over the hole and weld the hell out of it to the weld that you built up. Then most of the time you can take an impact gun and try to buzz the nut off. Don’t use a regular socket wrench you need to use an impact. I have used this method to get broken exhaust manifold bolts out of ls cylinder heads many times. Also use a mig welder not an arc welder. Another note. Let the weld cool completely as it will be expanded slightly because of the heat.