Fleeing Camaro Driver shot and killed.

[HookemHorns]

Sad story for all involved.

[FightingScallion]

Originally Posted by mcdoogle6969

That still does NOT justify shooting the suspect MULTIPLE times.

I'm not a LEO, so I don't know what the training is there, but I do have a bit of military training. Air Force officers are generally given M9s, which are notoriously useless weapons (some folks joke that you have more stopping power with it if you throw it at an assailant). I'm not sure if that plays into how I was trained or not; I expect that this stuff would have been told to us regardless.

For what little it is worth, we are generally told to shoot plenty more than once. Yes, it's military training, so it obviously means we want that guy dead. But, the bigger issue is that you shoot until you know they aren't a threat. If you look around, the examples of what people can do with a bunch of adrenaline (or other drugs) running through their bodies are incredible. One or two shots does not necessarily register in a hopped up person's brain. Depending on what someone is amped up on, you may be relying on blood loss just to make the person stop attacking you.

When you think of how you'd react if you got shot, you're thinking of what you'd do in a nice, calm situation. The closest analogy I can come up with for this would be playing sports. You might not ntice until long after the game that you're bleeding or bruised or badly injured, because your body is producing a lot of chemicals to keep you from feeling that pain (or recognizing it for being as bad as it is). And, like I said, drugs can amplify that (there's no shortage of history of warriors using drugs to allow them to be more "fearless" and less impervious to pain).

Really, don't assume that multiple shots are never called for. My personal gut feeling is that if one shot is required, you probably are going to need many.

[IROCanSS]

The car in the pic in the ditch could totally be black with yellow. Plates seem to match, stripes match, car on the TV with the flat... well that def matches. I'd say its the same car.

I am not commenting on anything else. I wasnt there, I don't know what happened but I am def not going to side with the cop or the perp. Cops make mistakes too, I am sure he was scared and acted... was it just??? I don't know but if I was down and someone was coming at me...

I say let the authorities sort that out. In the end.. the perp resisted... PERIOD. First... and last mistake he made.

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by FightingScallion

I'm not a LEO, so I don't know what the training is there, but I do have a bit of military training. Air Force officers are generally given M9s, which are notoriously useless weapons (some folks joke that you have more stopping power with it if you throw it at an assailant). I'm not sure if that plays into how I was trained or not; I expect that this stuff would have been told to us regardless.

For what little it is worth, we are generally told to shoot plenty more than once. Yes, it's military training, so it obviously means we want that guy dead. But, the bigger issue is that you shoot until you know they aren't a threat. If you look around, the examples of what people can do with a bunch of adrenaline (or other drugs) running through their bodies are incredible. One or two shots does not necessarily register in a hopped up person's brain. Depending on what someone is amped up on, you may be relying on blood loss just to make the person stop attacking you.

When you think of how you'd react if you got shot, you're thinking of what you'd do in a nice, calm situation. The closest analogy I can come up with for this would be playing sports. You might not ntice until long after the game that you're bleeding or bruised or badly injured, because your body is producing a lot of chemicals to keep you from feeling that pain (or recognizing it for being as bad as it is). And, like I said, drugs can amplify that (there's no shortage of history of warriors using drugs to allow them to be more "fearless" and less impervious to pain).

Really, don't assume that multiple shots are never called for. My personal gut feeling is that if one shot is required, you probably are going to need many.

This is exactly how the Mozambique Drill came into existence for military personnel.

Obviously, that specific technique is not really suitable for domestic law enforcement protocols, but the theory is the same. Someone who has a lot of adrenaline or any of a number of different illegal substances running through their system will often not be phased by one, two, or even three gunshot wounds, depending on where they hit. This is why just about every law enforcement officer is trained not to fire just a single shot. And unlike in the movies or TV shows, officers are not trained to only wound a suspect.

Look, no cop goes out and puts on his uniform hoping to kill someone that day. On the contrary. Every police officer I know would be perfectly happy if they never had to draw their weapon in the line of duty. It is not an emotional situation that anyone wants to endure.

I am not going to pass judgement on the particular incident originally posted. Not enough information is known about the incident, the people involved, or the mental state of even the "witnesses" at the time of the incident. This is why investigations are performed.

I will, however, pass a little judgement on the majority of the people who have posted in this thread that have criticized either the officer OR the driver. If you really think you know exactly what happened and can condemn either the officer or the driver from the little information available in that article posted, then you are seriously delusional. People really ought to know better by now, but instead there's just a bunch of overly biased opinions based on little to no information.

Not that it matters, but I don't even think the driver in the incident was even a member on this forum. Pictures of that particular car have surfaced here, yes, but they were not posted by the car owner. In the link earlier, the photos posted by shadow09 were of a car that they parked next to. But that was about the extent of it.

I'm simply astonished by the number of conclusions that have been made in this thread with so little information.

[IROCanSS]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

...blah blah blah...
I'm simply astonished by the number of conclusions that have been made in this thread with so little information.

Should close the thread with this.

[toesuf94]

This is pretty simple math folks: If an officer of the law asks you to do something - DO IT. Do not raise your hands or walk toward the officer - this can and will be interpreted as a threat to an officer and you will end up with lead poisoning or wetting your pants on the ground with 50,000 volts coursing through you.

Does this police department have cameras in the cars? Are the officers mic'd?

[bhall82]

IBTL

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by 90503

I agree...the hot-head camaro owners who want to automatically blame the police speaks volumes about a lot of "new generation" types...
needless to say I'm quite disappointed...if you want this thread closed, just bad mouth a forum sponsor (but I guess its ok to have a kangaroo court for the police who protect and serve us)...i hope i'm in the majority.

I think anyone who has driven a fast car has had some sort of clash with the police. As a group, I'm not sure this distinguishes today's drivers from those of 1967. It's even harder to make a dialogue on a whole generation of enthusiasts based on one incident.

Now, that we're talking about this incident, there's a lot of information that we simply don't know. Integrity is a big part of wearing any uniform. A person in uniform has to have the public's trust in what he or she does. A lot of people don't think about this, and they make it through an indoctrination system without considering the importance of their work. In the United States, we have more trust than a lot of countries in our police and military, perhaps because our police and military institutions haven't committed the atrocities all too familiar in places around the world (Syria, Bahrain, Russia, etc.). Just over the last year, sever long-standing regimes have faced violent revolutions as a consequence of misconduct in uniformed services, even if those governments ordered said misconduct.

As a member of the Navy, I can tell you that deadly force is not a joke. Any time that gun is drawn, there is an intention to fire it. That's the way the training goes. If this officer received inadequate training, we can certainly blame the officer for bad behavior, but we don't really know about his training. It is also worth pointing out that warning shots are not authorized in most situations. Hearing a gunshot causes a lot of hormones to fire in your brain, and that can cause violent responses. No one is calm when a gun is introduced to any situation. This isn't Hollywood. Let's also talk about this Camaro driver. Besides having the good taste to drive a Camaro, we don't really know this guy. Does he have a criminal history? Is he a drug user? Did he assault this officer? Like I said, integrity is part of wearing that uniform, but not everyone wearing that uniform has integrity, and there is plenty of scum wearing uniforms all over the world. They think the uniform makes them better.

We don't know the quality of human being driving that Camaro or what he did in this situation, and we can't exactly ask a dead man to tell us the truth. We don't know about this cop, how he was trained, or what happened here. A lot of us have demonstrated a certain eagerness to join a side, but there are no sides. It's just a sad story for all involved.

[SSE 4 2SS]

Why dont we wait until the investigation reveals what happened... This one has gone way off topic and some comments are just crazy... I wasn't there, I don't know what happened... so I'll wait to find out...

Closed