[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

I see that too.. luckily for me i'm after the big V-8's and I have no problem paying the extra 4k from a base GT to a 1SS. Even if they offered the premium GT with performance pack, recaros, a bunch of goodies for the same price as a 1SS I'll still take the SS!

The dif in performance is not small between the two and every weight saving, HP, Torque advantage is a big win.

As far as the lower trims, the price shouldn't be too big of a gap since people who shop there don't care for the extra 20 HP or torque.

And another unspoken attraction to the price conscious buyer is that in the Mustang you get a V6 vs the I4 in the Camaro.

Now WE know the difference etc but how many buyers care about much more than the fact they would get a 'more manly' V6 in a Mustang vs a 'Doesn't a Honda Civic have a puny 4 cylinder?' choice? "And Chevy wants MORE money for less engine?" Like I said, we know the difference but the young buyer doesn't care.

For many young people they will automatically be drawn to buying a V6 ('It's more domestic', 'Made in the USA!', etc) vs a I4 Four Cylinder ('Has to be a Foreign engine!', 'Who wants a turbo? Just something more to go wrong!').

You can hear the arguments from here... And so the young 20-something is pulled to the Mustang by: Price, Features, and most of all, a car that looks 'newer' than the 'newest' Camaro.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by iroc_but5.0sdont

lol it's a metaphor my friend, what I mean is people seem to notice the Mustang is an all new design.

They notice it's a new design because they have seen enough of them to know.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Raven87

And another unspoken attraction to the price conscious buyer is that in the Mustang you get a V6 vs the I4 in the Camaro.

Now WE know the difference etc but how many buyers care about much more than the fact they would get a 'more manly' V6 in a Mustang vs a 'Doesn't a Honda Civic have a puny 4 cylinder?' choice?

For many young people they will automatically be drawn to buying a V6 ('It's more domestic', 'Made in the USA!', etc) vs a I4 Four Cylinder ('Has to be a Foreign engine!', 'Who wants a turbo? Just something more to go wrong!').

You can hear the arguments from here... And so the young 20-something is pulled to the Mustang by: Price, Features, and most of all, a car that looks 'newer' than the 'newest' Camaro.

Wait that argument would suggest no one would want the EB Mustang then, which is outselling the V6 according what limited info has come out by a large share. So apparently people want to pay more for the turbo 4. So that busts that idea.

[aestil]

Originally Posted by iroc_but5.0sdont

The majority of the buyers do not care about those things. When they buy a new car they want people to notice it's an all new car not a new one that looks like their old one.

Please provide your hard data on the majority of new car owners you have surveyed to make such a statement.

kk thx

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Wait that argument would suggest no one would want the EB Mustang then, which is outselling the V6 according what limited info has come out by a large share. So apparently people want to pay more for the turbo 4. So that busts that idea.

No, that does NOT bust that idea. Put yourself in the first time buyer's shoes and ignore what you know about performance.

I will bet you a hot fudge sundae that every Ford Salesman is using that pitch against a base Camaro because their EB I4 is on par (their term) with the V6 Camaro. See how they can turn it around?

A good salesman can kill the idea of a 4 cyl vs a 6 cyl OR turn it the other way if you want to talk performance.

No idea busted here my friend. Stroll on down to the Ford dealer and price a base Mustang and see what you hear when you say you are also shopping the 1LT Camaro...

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Wait that argument would suggest no one would want the EB Mustang then, which is outselling the V6 according what limited info has come out by a large share. So apparently people want to pay more for the turbo 4. So that busts that idea.

And - that is also because for the base but still price conscious performance buyer (not the first time buyer) knows the performance numbers of the EB I4 are BETTER than Ford's V6.

It is how Ford marketed their engine lineups. No smoke and mirrors here...

[MovieGuy]

My base Camaro has more options than my premium Mustang did. There is a reason for the price difference. The reason the Camaros cost more is because they are worth it.

[SpeedIsLife]

The Mustang EB4 has also shown itself as besting the V6 Camaro in some tests as well, C&D June 16 issue.

[triggerjerk]

My 2 bits on this:

Price. A 1SS with a few options (magride, npp) is pushing $40K.
For a Chevy. Not a snob/premium brand. A Chevy. That isn't a Corvette.
See also: SS sedan. Yes Mustangs can be similarly equipped but the base Camaro V8 is quite a step up in price.

Wintertime launch. Who launches an all new sports car that ends up at dealers in the dead of winter? Yes, I know GM has disclosed their time line all along. If I tell you I am going to punch you in the mouth and then I do it, does it make it any better? Apparently the ZL1 and 1LE will continue this strategy. Ok, I admit, this has little to do with May sales.

Styling. To the general public not much has changed. Then you have a joke of a trunk and terrible headroom. Chevy keeps saying "We listened to fifth gen owners!" Are fifth gen owners buying 6th gens en masse? Did Chevy want to lure new buyers over to the brand?

Having said all of that, I am not a hater. I hope to get a ZL1 some day (assuming I can figure out how to see out of one).

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Raven87

No, that does NOT bust that idea. Put yourself in the first time buyer's shoes and ignore what you know about performance.

I will bet you a hot fudge sundae that every Ford Salesman is using that pitch against a base Camaro because their EB I4 is on par (their term) with the V6 Camaro. See how they can turn it around?

A good salesman can kill the idea of a 4 cyl vs a 6 cyl OR turn it the other way if you want to talk performance.

No idea busted here my friend. Stroll on down to the Ford dealer and price a base Mustang and see what you hear when you say you are also shopping the 1LT Camaro...

You are right about salesman, but they also always upsale. So at the same dealership if someone ask about a V6 Mustang, the salesman is going to talk about how the V6 has less power, less fuel efficiency, and doesn't have all the nice features you can get with the EB. So you aren't really making any point, because what would the customer think (who was talked out of a T4 LT Camaro) into a V6, then only to have the same points used to sell him a EB? I know you are trying to make a point about the LT and Mustang pricing not be apples to apples, but any argument about T4 vs V6 can be countered by what the other side does.

Originally Posted by Raven87

And - that is also because for the base but still price conscious performance buyer (not the first time buyer) knows the performance numbers of the EB I4 are BETTER than Ford's V6.

It is how Ford marketed their engine lineups. No smoke and mirrors here...

That would be fair, if the EB wasn't actually rated higher in HP. HP is something even the "first time buyer" understands.

[Hypertrophy]

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

My 2 bits on this: If I tell you I am going to punch you in the mouth and then I do it, does it make it any better?

Well put good sir!

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Have you even PRICED the two?

These numbers are from Ford and Chevy's own Build and Price website.

2016 Mustang Base V6 Fastback - V6 and 6 speed manual are standard - base price is $24,145.

2016 Camaro Base I4 Turbo coupe - I4 and 6 speed manual are standard - base price is $26,695! The Camaro starts out over $2500 MORE than the base Mustang using GM's own data from the Camaro website.

That is one hell of a difference in anyone's book, much less some young buyer starting out.

And when every dollar matters for payments, that is why base Camaros are at a disadvantage price-wise.

Don't forget perception when the average Joe/Jane is comparing the two base models. Ford's base V6 vs. Chevy base 4cyl. Most non car people are going to think bigger engine = more premium, better value.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Wait that argument would suggest no one would want the EB Mustang then, which is outselling the V6 according what limited info has come out by a large share. So apparently people want to pay more for the turbo 4. So that busts that idea.

EB has marketing behind it that has given the perception of it being premium.

[CapeCruisin]

if camaro6 could put the brain energy used so far in this thread towards something like making us all a billions dollars... hmm..