[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by joe944

If horsepower is the only thing you care about sounds like Dodge makes some perfect vehicles for you!

Apparently so because the Challenger is outselling the Camaro. Maybe Chevy could come up with what those customers want.... Horsepower.

[JB'sZL1]

The fact is, the only way more hp can be realized is in a straightaway. Hell, most people cannot handle the hp already in the Z. It is certainly not beneficial in turns: there is ample hp for that.

And even in a straightaway to fully realize the potential one needs drag tires and smaller wheels...that's a fact. And then you no longer have a track car.

Like others have posted 6 second 0-60 times and 15 second 1/4 mile times was eye opening for years. To have 2 or 3 second, and 10 or 9 second times is almost prostock. And downright dangerous off a track/strip with controlled conditions, and w/o a skilled operator.

Modify it to your own requirements I say. And then have a lot of fun and enjoyment in it. But you cannot have the best of everything in one car. Once you make it more of a track car, it is a lesser drag car...and vice versa. It's that simple.

[mdmoore23]

GM has Corvettes in the lineup also OP. The Camaro is already closer than ever to Vette performance, but do you really think GM wants the Camaro to be the absolute halo car? Much more performance added and that's what it will be. Dodge and Ford dont have the same situation with another performance vehicle so close in price and performance.

[Revalot]

Maybe GM should give us more hp, less handling, and a live axle , wait that's a hellcat ! GM is doing a fine job. If you want more, mod it or buy a ZR1 ! I think it's great that you can get a ZL1 1LE for way less than sticker, hit a road course or a great back road at 1g force and drive it home. Most test drivers say the 1LE needs a roll cage, it's that mean ! I'm hoping I can get my hands on one. I see Z06s,C6, C7, and stingrays all the time, I hardly see ZL1 1LE out and that makes it rare. I love back roads and tracks, and I'm coming with the funds to enjoy, and if I catch a hellcat on the back roads or track, I will skin it ! Or on the hwy I will mod mine and run that back cat over ! LOL

[Artos]

So let's just say the LT5 is going to happen with the ZL1...GM moves it from what I understand is currently a more hands on build to a more traditional volume assembly.

How many years out & what is sticker?? Sorta feeling giddy with the possibility.

[SecondZ28]

the ZL1 is a much better car, yet it doesn't outsell the Hellcat. GM is obviously doing something wrong..

They are catering to the magazine editors and not the general public

[Faster12]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

In my opinion the easiest way to separate the arguments here is simply this...

Stop thinking about the Camaro, especially the 6th gen ZL1, as a muscle car that competes with the Challenger and Mustang. Start thinking of it as a BMW M3 or similar. The 6th ZL1 is not about the Big-high-HP-Engine-where-it-doesn't-belong game anymore. It's an all around car, it's more exotic than the Challenger/Mustang. Better everything. World-class handling and brakes, takes away from engine HP cost. But we live in a world where we're complaining about 650 HP and 650 TQ. Lol. The ZL1 already smears M3s, M4s, M5s, all the way up to McLaren 570s on a track. It costs $59k-$70k. What more do we want? We want the LT5! Aren't we selfish? Haha.

That's a really interesting perspective. In sales, they definitely compete, but in purpose they are no longer in the same class. Hmm....I like where your head's at.

Color me nostalgic. I just want to see Chevy on top.

[Faster12]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

This is exactly what I've been saying ever since the Demon showed up.



You answered your own question. "The ZL1 with it's all around performance was still barely capable of beating the GT350R". You see it as "barely beating" the Shelby. Yet the Shelby was designed for 1 purpose only. It was designed to be a strict track car. The ZL1 was designed to be good at everything. Get it? Basically the ZL1 as an all-around performance car was able to beat the Shelby in what the Shelby was specifically designed to do. All of that while being cheaper and fully optioned. That would be like a person who could out lift powerlifters,out run sprinters, swim better than divers, out box boxers, AND beat everyone at a game of chess. It does everything well but cars that are purpose built can't beat it at what they're built for.

And at what cost? Do you know how much the ZL1's price would increase by if they added the LT5 to it? At least $15K-$20K. Which would make it a $75K-$80K MSRP and at which point the vast majority of it's customer base would not be able to afford it or would not justify paying that much for it. And again, then what about the Z06? If they put the LT5 in the ZL1 then it would also have to go in the Z06 considering that we only got the LT4 because it was in the Z06 in the first place. So basically, the Z06 would increase to the price of a ZR1 and then what would they even need the ZR1 for? None of this is practical and GM would be stupid to attempt this. It would likely spell disaster for the Camaro and Corvette. Even if they did something to add extra HP to the LT4 it would still increase the price of the car and then what?

And the ZL1 is more than capable in a straight line. The only time a Hellcat can beat a ZL1 stock for stock is in a roll race and it would have to be in the higher speeds and even then it is just barely pulling away. There is no other performance area that a stock HC can beat a stock ZL1 in. So if that is the only thing that matters to you then buy a HC. You don't give 2 shits about the ZL1 being an all around car and GM doesn't really give 2 shits that you want something that is good at only straight line performance. If you go to the drag strip then even there there is nothing in this price range that can beat a ZL1 stock for stock. The HC would need tires and possibly a driveshaft to do what a ZL1 can do off the showroom floor. And at that the Hellcat can't beat the ZL1 at anything else. The Shelby can't beat the ZL1 at anything at all.

The 13-14 GT500 came out a year after the ZL1 showed up with more HP than the 12 GT500. And the 13-14s had nowhere near the options or features that the ZL1 had. It was still solid axle, no heated seats, nothing. And it hasn't been around ever since. By the time it comes out which should be 2020, that will be 6 MYs since it last appeared. The Hellcat came out in 2015 and has not changed since. So these changes for 2019 are 4 MYs after it first showed up. The 6th Gen ZL1 has been out for one year man. So why are you criticizing GM after only one year and praising Ford and Dodge after it took them 6 years and 4 years (respectively) to make any changes at all? If anything you shouldn't be expecting GM to make changes until 2021 or 2022. And still, you don't even know if the 2019 HC or the GT500 will be able to beat the ZL1. All we've seen from Ford is them pushing and pushing the release of the GT500 back and that is probably because they need more time to make it formidable. And Dodge is making cars that are good at one thing only. It sounds to me like you aren't giving the ZL1 enough credit. Or you saw "717" and "797" HP and freaked out.

Boy I tell you...people get into their feelings about cars huh? The goal here is to be objective in your answers, not to get in your feelings because I made valid points and I asked people with inside knowledge to lend an opinion. I don't recall praising anything, I merely stated facts as they are available from virtually any source. Getting "freaked out" by HP numbers isn't something I do. I own a 5th gen ZL1 just north of 700hp. I merely asked questions based on the info about each car....then I hoped some people with ACTUAL knowledge, as I requested in my post, would chime in and give me a rundown of GMs philosophy so to speak. If I asked why honey wheat bread isn't sweet, when Hawaiian sweet rolls are, would you be so offended? Would you so ardently come to trash talk me then? You are out fighting for the wrong cause. You suggestion that I don't "give 2 shits about the ZL1" and GM not "giving 2 shits about" what I want, were a bit much.

Intelligent, educated debate is what I'm after here. Teach people on the forum, don't just shoot shit and be the internet hero of the day. I wished people still knew how to read AND comprehend.

[Wang]

Think of ZL1 is a down tune and more daily version of a track car, which is the ZL1 1LE. It handles better. Dodge and Ford are doing nothing the same. the top tier Challenger is a die hard straight line drag racer, and GT500 is more like a conformable GT with a lot of power. and if you want to make the mustang into a track car. The GT350R track car literally shares nothing with the regular GT and GT500 (except the body work and the interior). Very different car.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by Firehead640

I really doubt the 10 speed part. I'm pretty sure that the Shelby Cars ONLY come with manual gearboxes, just like the ZL1 1LE.

Every Shelby Mustang until the '07 GT500 was available with an auto, so there's no silly tradition to maintain there.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by Mcardenal

I don't get it?
HP is important, but isn't going fast (faster than the other guy) more important?
The ZL1 came out in late 2016 (MoYe 2017) with more HP than the mustang GT350 R and less than the Hellcat. Yet it is faster than both (1/4 mile, 0-60, track, etc...) in stock form. The Demon came out almost 2 years after the 6th gen Zl1, the Redeye isn't even out yet and the latest GT500 doesn't even have a solid release date (just a bunch of teasers).
The latest ZR1 is a monster at 3300 lbs curb weight with 755HP (.23HP per pound) vs the Demon at 4400 lbs curb weight with 840HP MAX (.19HP per pound).
Just for additional comparison;
The ZL1 is at 3800 lbs curb weight with 650HP (.17HP per pound) vs the Hellcat at 4400 lbs curb weight with 717HP (.16HP per pound).
So explain to me what GM is playing catch up to?

The ZR1 is not 3300 lbs, its 3600 + lbs. If you cant see where Camaro needs to catch up, all I can say is you need to look a little closer. You have to leave corvette out of this , the war is between Dodge, Mustang, Camaro.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Revalot

Maybe GM should give us more hp, less handling, and a live axle , wait that's a hellcat ! GM is doing a fine job. If you want more, mod it or buy a ZR1 ! I think it's great that you can get a ZL1 1LE for way less than sticker, hit a road course or a great back road at 1g force and drive it home. Most test drivers say the 1LE needs a roll cage, it's that mean ! I'm hoping I can get my hands on one. I see Z06s,C6, C7, and stingrays all the time, I hardly see ZL1 1LE out and that makes it rare. I love back roads and tracks, and I'm coming with the funds to enjoy, and if I catch a hellcat on the back roads or track, I will skin it ! Or on the hwy I will mod mine and run that back cat over ! LOL

I love East Texas but not street racers. They invented a thing called race tracks long ago. Street racing is actually unsafe no matter how great a driver is. Name yer poison but do it on a safe track. Yes, I'm aware of how far one can drive there without ever seeing another car. Just saying...

[DenverTaco07]

LT5

[Mcardenal]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

The ZR1 is not 3300 lbs, its 3600 + lbs. If you cant see where Camaro needs to catch up, all I can say is you need to look a little closer. You have to leave corvette out of this , the war is between Dodge, Mustang, Camaro.

Ok 👍
Let me correct that.
3600 lb curb weight with 755HP (.21HP per pound)
Still more HP than a Demon or Redeye🤔
Also, why does this conversation have to exclude the ZR1?
A Demon goes for well over $120K. That’s about what a ZR1 goes for. Wasn’t the question about what GM would do in response to Dodge?
My response is that they already have.
A ZL1 has more HP per pound than a Hellcat and ZR1 has more HP per pound than a Demon (period)
GM Wins the HP WAR😏