Hey GM

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Number 3

There really is no frame on the Camaro. It is BFI or Body Frame Integral construction. So what is frame is basically stamped panels in the underbody. And in this area there is quite a bit of high strength (read ligher weight) steel used on most modern cars.

Chassis is either stamped steel or aluminium castings. The Corvette has the aluminium. Camaro I believe relys on stamped steel. You could convert those to chromoly tubes which might reduce weight, but I think I'd just jump to aluminium.

But you could use Chromoly tube for upper and lower control arms.

I'm more for chromoly because of it's strength with being lower weight then regular steel. my 4th gen I installed boxed subframe connectors made out of the stuff, pan hard rod, and torque arm. I had a chromoly K-member sitting in the garage when I blew the engine. I'm a believer in strength. . .lol. one reason I wouldn't go with an aluminum drive shaft when moding.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by General Lee

Just wondering why we are talking about Z/28's when GM is not planning on making one?
Are we just dreaming and wishing?

who said they weren't planning on making one? are you in the decision making process behind closed doors?

The signs point to said mythical Z28 becoming a reality. you just need to look around for them.

[Fightinfire921]

Originally Posted by General Lee

Just wondering why we are talking about Z/28's when GM is not planning on making one?
Are we just dreaming and wishing?

Whoa!.......I know General Lee is not related to General Motors.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by Gramps69Z

Whoa!.......I know General Lee is not related to General Motors.

Wasn't General Lee related to some hillbillies that drove a Dodge? Certainly shouldn't have anything to do with GM or we'd have heard about him by now.
Clyde

[z28camaro2471]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

there were no SS's in the second gens. . ..

Wrong! Chevy did produce a 2nd gen SS with a big block.

[boxmonkeyracing]

so point and laugh. how many years was the SS big blocks available. . .huh? that would be 3 from an 11 year run for the second gens. a small blip on the radar screen. after that last 1972 SS rolled off the line how many years before an SS reappeared? didn't happen for over 20 years.

[z28camaro2471]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

so point and laugh. how many years was the SS big blocks available. . .huh? that would be 3 from an 11 year run for the second gens. a small blip on the radar screen. after that last 1972 SS rolled off the line how many years before an SS reappeared? didn't happen for over 20 years.

You said they didn't produce a SS in the 2nd gen. You were wrong. They only made a Z/28 for 3 years as a 1st gen, is that somehow irrelevant too now? What if they only made 1 SS as 2nd gen? They only made 2 ZL1 Corvettes as a C3 and nobody ignores the significance of those.

I was simply pointing out your error. Relax. I make mistakes every day.

[z28camaro2471]

Oh and 70-81 is a 12 year run, not 11. Use your fingers and toes or an abacus next time if you want to count accurately.

[68vert]

Originally Posted by Number 3

There really is no frame on the Camaro. It is BFI or Body Frame Integral construction. So what is frame is basically stamped panels in the underbody. And in this area there is quite a bit of high strength (read ligher weight) steel used on most modern cars.

Chassis is either stamped steel or aluminium castings. The Corvette has the aluminium. Camaro I believe relys on stamped steel. You could convert those to chromoly tubes which might reduce weight, but I think I'd just jump to aluminium.

But you could use Chromoly tube for upper and lower control arms.

I was hoping this thread would at least at some point draw either a yes/no for a gen5 Z from the father or another official source. Obviously our timetable is not GM's timetable for releasing this info, but I will still keep my fingers crossed. I have a 2010 SS and at some point I will change over to a 1LE, ZL1 or Z28. More options the merrier.

Thanks for the info Number 3. Is the BFI on the base/GS vette steel and then it changes over entirely to aluminum on the Z06? Makes me wonder what the Camaro would drop in lbs if the same structure items were converted to aluminum. The cost might not be worth the weight savings though...hmm.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by General Lee

Just wondering why we are talking about Z/28's when GM is not planning on making one?
Are we just dreaming and wishing?

Troll?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I am guessing but maybe 20 pounds per corner but that is only a guess. Did I mention that was a guess?

Wow, that would be well worth it.

Anyone have information on the cost of something like this were it available?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 68vert

I was hoping this thread would at least at some point draw either a yes/no for a gen5 Z from the father or another official source. Obviously our timetable is not GM's timetable for releasing this info, but I will still keep my fingers crossed. I have a 2010 SS and at some point I will change over to a 1LE, ZL1 or Z28. More options the merrier.

Thanks for the info Number 3. Is the BFI on the base/GS vette steel and then it changes over entirely to aluminum on the Z06? Makes me wonder what the Camaro would drop in lbs if the same structure items were converted to aluminum. The cost might not be worth the weight savings though...hmm.

The Vette "space frame" actually has the two hydroformed tubes or rails that some might look at as a frame. It is actually just part of the body structure. For the Z06, those rails and the rest of the space frame were changed to aluminum. One of my proudest accomplishments was leading the team that did that engineering work for the Z06. It saved well over 100 pounds but was quite expensive. Aluminum is lighter than steel and costs a whole bunch more. Can't give you the prices though.

And converting to aluminum isn't as easy as just changing materials. Aluminum doesn't have the same strength so in some cases you may have to look at thicker panels. Look at the Auid A8 for example. A great example of an all aluminum body structure and yet it still weights well over 4,000 pounds. A very large car yes, but not a miracle of weight loss either.

So in the right applications you can get some nice saving with aluminum. An engine block alone can save 100 pounds or so.

[68vert]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The Vette "space frame" actually has the two hydroformed tubes or rails that some might look at as a frame. It is actually just part of the body structure. For the Z06, those rails and the rest of the space frame were changed to aluminum. One of my proudest accomplishments was leading the team that did that engineering work for the Z06. It saved well over 100 pounds but was quite expensive. Aluminum is lighter than steel and costs a whole bunch more. Can't give you the prices though.

And converting to aluminum isn't as easy as just changing materials. Aluminum doesn't have the same strength so in some cases you may have to look at thicker panels. Look at the Auid A8 for example. A great example of an all aluminum body structure and yet it still weights well over 4,000 pounds. A very large car yes, but not a miracle of weight loss either.

So in the right applications you can get some nice saving with aluminum. An engine block alone can save 100 pounds or so.

10-4....that makes sense. Considering the cost, basically aluminum is better put to use on fat, bulkier items such as a block, vs longer/thinner items (floor pans) that are subject to twisting, etc. Looks like aluminum is roughly 4-5 time the price of steel.

That's cool about doing the work on the Z06...wish I could hover over your shoulder for a day!

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by z28camaro2471

You said they didn't produce a SS in the 2nd gen. You were wrong. They only made a Z/28 for 3 years as a 1st gen, is that somehow irrelevant too now? What if they only made 1 SS as 2nd gen? They only made 2 ZL1 Corvettes as a C3 and nobody ignores the significance of those.

I was simply pointing out your error. Relax. I make mistakes every day.

considering how long the first gen was made. yea it is. so what if I'm wrong. you're the one being an ass. If you hadn't been an ass maybe I would have just said ok. yea I'm wrong. but instead you wanted to be an ass. either way doesn't change the fact the Z28 was until the 5th gen always part of the camaro line up. the SS has not.