Time for a cam swap, opinions welcome

[go_go_gadget88]

Hello all. Now that the camaro is put away for the winter, I feel now is a good time to start the cam swap. I have started ordering a few of the little things, but wanted to throw out what my plans were and see if anyone has opinions on it. Good, bad, or otherwise.

The goal: I would like to try and scratch the 500hp mark without touching the bottom end, and I don't want to spin it over 7000. I am not hung up on numbers though, so if it hits 490(or whatever) I'm not going to have a mental breakdown or anything. Especially considering my tuner uses a Mustang dyno, so may be a little on the low side. This isn't a daily driver by any means, so I am not expecting to retain stock drivability. When I do take it out, it is usually pretty spirited driving, and will occasionally see the strip. But, going FI is going to be a while, so I am hoping this will be enough motor to tide me over for now.

I had it dyno'd a couple months ago. Current mods are Rotofab CAI, and Speed Engineering LT's, no cats, into stock catback. Has 21,600 miles on the clock. It put down 385hp with stock tune. Didn't want to pay to have it tuned at the time, knowing that it wasn't going to see much action before this cam swap, which will need a retune. It will be getting tuned/dyno'd after this is all done.

The plan: I have had a hell of a time narrowing down my cam choice. There are just so many options! I think I have decided on the TSP Stage 3. Specs are 231/246 .640/.615 111LSA I plan to get the package that will come with appropriate springs/seals/pushrods/etc.. Will be doing the 3 bolt conversion while I am at it. Being as this isn't a DD, I have considered going with the stage 4 "F-35" cam instead, but I am worried that that doesn't leave a lot of PTV clearance. Sounded like the stage 3 was a safer cam, that only gives up like 5hp up top. I have been unable to find a lot of opinions on this cam (or either, really) from anyone that actually has been running it. I will be doing 3.91 gears later on as funds allow, so that should help drivability with any cam.


While I have it apart, I plan to replace the stock oil pump, as I have read that they are a problem part? I also have already ordered an LS2-style timing chain block, to replace the tensioner my LS3 currently uses. I see that as cheap insurance. One thing I am on the fence about, is the Trunion upgrade. I see some say its necessary, and others say don't waste the money. Curious to see thoughts from threads that aren't 6+ years old. Parts (and opinions) can change. I am also considering throwing on an UDP for those few extra ponies it can free up. The last smaller thing I wish to do, is have my TB ported out. I inquired about that a while ago, but decided to hold off until it was coming apart anyhow, as the downtime won't be an issue at this point (didn't want to give up driving for a while during the nice season!)


I know that this cam along with the other mods probably isn't going to get me quite to my mark, so I also plan to address the heads in one fashion or another. At this point they are still up in the air. I think I am going to pull them, and see if I can get a decent price for them. If so, I will probably plunk down the cash for a set of GMPP ported heads. If not, I will just have my stock ones ported. The end result will be pretty much the same, I believe.


That is about as far as my budget is going to stretch this year. Longer term goals - I would eventually like build a stroker bottom end for this, possibly utilizing a new block, (my 2009 silverado is drinking oil, and just begging for this 6.2 bottom end)... One day I will go FI with it, but that is probably many years down the road, so I am not really basing anything I do today off what may or may not happen years from now.



Thanks for anyone that takes the time to read this, and I look forward to hearing some opinions. I plan to order the big parts next week, and start getting her torn down!

[frankwjr]

start with a tuner...

[go_go_gadget88]

Originally Posted by frankwjr

start with a tuner...

Huh?? Why would I tune now, and then immediately tune again after the swap?

Already spoke with the guy who will be tuning it (known him for years, and the dyno is about 6 blocks from my house). Out of my cam choices, this was the one we both put on top of the list.

[Hixson]

Whats up go-go, I'm actually planning on starting my cam upgrade at the start of Feb. I have an L99 so some things are a little different since I need lifters but for the most part were in the same boat. I elected to go with an ss1 kit and tune from Rhino79 at GPI. Ive been reassured that even this smaller cam will be lopey and choppy like the bigger cams, and will give me pretty close to the same HP (within maybe 20-30HP). My decision was based on my desire to retain drivability for my daily driver, and the fact that I didn't want to add a stall this year.

Ill just ramble about some advice ive been given or decisions ive made for my own build - as I too wanted to hit a high all motor HP number. I'm electing to replace all 16 lifters with nicer new ones. My engine has 28,000 on it and I'm afraid that adding a new cam and opening the engine gives the possibility of having issues, so I'm spending the extra cash to give me peace of mind. I am keeping my stock rocker arms and trunions - all the books ive read say that the stock LS3 rockers were 10/10 and most aftermarket options have been experiencing bearing failures at a rate that I'm not comfortable with. I saved that money and instead elected to go with a GPI ported rod-mod intake. Reasonable price, awesome worksmanship, and dyno tested to add 8-12 HP peak for cammed applications. I think this would be an awesome purchase for you on your pursuit to 500 HP. I elected to keep my stock oil pump. Ive heard ours is good enough to handle what I'm throwing at it - however with you having a 7 year old car - $150 for a nice melling pump might be a good buy.

Since you have a 6M - I might go ahead and suggest the biggest cam you can buy since you don't DD. I think something like the Nightfury, GPI SS4, or Texas Spead stage 4.2 might be the best options for you. You could also look into the large cams offered by Frankenstein Engine Dynamics - new to the forum but supposed to be kick ass too. If you are comfortable with the little flywheel cutting that goes with a stage 4, I say go grab as much HP as you can.

Lots of really good options for heads. I really would like to do my heads, but I just don't think the budget can stretch that far this year. Ive been looking at GMPP, texas speeds PRC, GPI heads, Frankenstein, and trickflow. I don't know that you can go wrong with any of them, but some definitely offer more affordable options than others. If it was me, and I could stretch the budget a little - I would go with having my own heads CNC ported or find someone that does a core exchange so you can make some $$ back. Some of these places boast 20-25 HP from their heads - would be great for hitting that 500HP number, idk if you can without it.

2 final thoughts - I just installed my VMAX ported throttle body last night. wasn't able to get any road time but revved the car for a few minutes in the garage. Throttle response definitely improved. 100% worth the $150 after core charge. Kicks ass.
also - how did you run LT headers without a tune for so long? I was under the impression it wasn't possible without a CEL - that's why ive waiting until next month to do headers and cam at the same time

[Avenging Orange]

I would suggest you spend your winter doing a lot of reading....not trying to kill it all at once.
We have a few sponsors who spec custom grinds. Even the big cam manufacturers have forms you can fill out...stating your goals..and offer suggestions. Nobody can you what YOU want.

[go_go_gadget88]

Originally Posted by Hixson

I am keeping my stock rocker arms and trunions - all the books ive read say that the stock LS3 rockers were 10/10 and most aftermarket options have been experiencing bearing failures at a rate that I'm not comfortable with. I saved that money and instead elected to go with a GPI ported rod-mod intake. Reasonable price, awesome worksmanship, and dyno tested to add 8-12 HP peak for cammed applications. I think this would be an awesome purchase for you on your pursuit to 500 HP. I elected to keep my stock oil pump. Ive heard ours is good enough to handle what I'm throwing at it - however with you having a 7 year old car - $150 for a nice melling pump might be a good buy.

Since you have a 6M - I might go ahead and suggest the biggest cam you can buy since you don't DD. I think something like the Nightfury, GPI SS4, or Texas Spead stage 4.2 might be the best options for you. You could also look into the large cams offered by Frankenstein Engine Dynamics - new to the forum but supposed to be kick ass too. If you are comfortable with the little flywheel cutting that goes with a stage 4, I say go grab as much HP as you can.

Lots of really good options for heads. I really would like to do my heads, but I just don't think the budget can stretch that far this year. Ive been looking at GMPP, texas speeds PRC, GPI heads, Frankenstein, and trickflow. I don't know that you can go wrong with any of them, but some definitely offer more affordable options than others. If it was me, and I could stretch the budget a little - I would go with having my own heads CNC ported or find someone that does a core exchange so you can make some $$ back. Some of these places boast 20-25 HP from their heads - would be great for hitting that 500HP number, idk if you can without it.

2 final thoughts - I just installed my VMAX ported throttle body last night. wasn't able to get any road time but revved the car for a few minutes in the garage. Throttle response definitely improved. 100% worth the $150 after core charge. Kicks ass.
also - how did you run LT headers without a tune for so long? I was under the impression it wasn't possible without a CEL - that's why ive waiting until next month to do headers and cam at the same time

First, thank you for taking the time to make a detailed response, I am sorry if I don't counter/comment on every part lol, but some good info here.

Maybe I will just retain my rockers and put that money elsewhere. I am a believer in trying to do things right the first time, so if they are a genuinely worthwhile upgrade, I had no problem shelling out the cash. But if they are just as likely to cause problem, I won't bother. Hopefully some people that have been running a fairly stout cam can comment on their experiences. And that said, I do still have somewhat of a budget that I need to stick to, so trying to spend my dollars as wisely as possible. I have looked into the GPI rod mod, and would definitely do that over a FAST any day!

Funny you mention night fury, that was one that made it to the "top 4". Ultimately it seemed like quite a few cams would meet my goals, and I'm sure that's true. I am not familiar with exactly what goes into flycutting, but wasn't sure if any of these cams actually NEEDED it. Especially if I'm not milling the heads. And yes there are a lot of options for heads, for sure! And same story as the cam..there are probably a dozen heads out there that would do just what I want, and be similar to each other. TSP has a great price for porting the ones I already have, so I am currently leaning that way, but not set in stone.

I just want to do the motor at once and be done with that. I have my future mods planned out in groups. And this will save me money on multiple re-tunes if I do it in stages. I could do a cam swap without touching heads, but I would feel better taking them off and inspecting lifters and such too. And no, I don't think I would break 500 on this dyno without touching heads anyhow.


Last 2 things. For throttle body, I would like to get it ported by Bo White. I have heard nothing but praises about him and his work. And seeing some of his posts on here, it's clear he is a very knowledgeable dude! And for driving with LT without a tune- easy. I just ignore the CEL. I know what it's on for, so I can live with it. I have literally put like 400 miles on it since august when I did it, so it's not like it annoys me daily! Car runs just fine without being tuned. Down a little on power compared to it's potential, yes. But still fine

[go_go_gadget88]

Originally Posted by Avenging Orange

I would suggest you spend your winter doing a lot of reading....not trying to kill it all at once.
We have a few sponsors who spec custom grinds. Even the big cam manufacturers have forms you can fill out...stating your goals..and offer suggestions. Nobody can you what YOU want.

I mean, I have done a LOT of reading, and went over the cam install guide a couple times to make sure there wasn't anything to it that I didn't think I could handle. This is my first time tearing into an LS, but i've been wrenching on things since I could hold one lol. So I'm not sure what you mean?

I want to do all this motor stuff at once. Partially because I have my mods planned out in groups down the road already. Don't want to dive into motor multiple times. More chance for an error. Plus, I will spend more having it tuned multiple times. So, I guess I am not sure what you mean by not kill it all at once?

I have thought about having one spec'd. I have seen a couple names thrown around, but I don't personally have experience with any of them. Was hoping to get the bulk of my stuff from one place, so if I have issues with part quality, I don't get the run around from multiple vendors.

[StreetRage320]

Originally Posted by go_go_gadget88

Huh?? Why would I tune now, and then immediately tune again after the swap?

Already spoke with the guy who will be tuning it (known him for years, and the dyno is about 6 blocks from my house). Out of my cam choices, this was the one we both put on top of the list.

Consult with a tuner first, discuss in detail your needs/goals, current mods, desired mods, etc..tuner's can make sure you make the best cam decision. I don't think Frank meant to tune it before the cam swap..

[go_go_gadget88]

Originally Posted by StreetRage320

Consult with a tuner first, discuss in detail your needs/goals, current mods, desired mods, etc..tuner's can make sure you make the best cam decision. I don't think Frank meant to tune it before the cam swap..

Not how I took it, but that makes much more sense! I was like why would I tune it right before mods necessitating a tune, haha

I guess it would have helped to state that I have already gone over the big stuff with my tuner, which is how I have arrived at my choice of cam. Also, that why I am planning heads now and gears later, rather than cam and gears now and heads later. He thinks it can break 500 with that cam and some decent ported heads.

I just figured this was a good resource to ask about the camaro specific things, like the oil pump and the trunion upgrade that I was on the fence about.

[0331Marine]

It can be done with heads, big cam, and an underdrive pulley. But remember all dynos will read differently. Also talk to GPI they have some cams that are proven over and over

[frankwjr]

well alrighty then! good when all the info is presented..+1 on trunnion upgrade, cheap insurance IMHO...cam is good, oil pump can be ported polished(how many miles on motor?)..send the heads out for a cnc...

bigger q is what the heck are ya gonna do 'bout your suspension? I see a lot of hop in your future grasshopper(get it?) lulz and that's gonna break parts..

[go_go_gadget88]

Originally Posted by frankwjr

well alrighty then! good when all the info is presented..+1 on trunnion upgrade, cheap insurance IMHO...cam is good, oil pump can be ported polished(how many miles on motor?)..send the heads out for a cnc...

bigger q is what the heck are ya gonna do 'bout your suspension? I see a lot of hop in your future grasshopper(get it?) lulz and that's gonna break parts..

Sorry, I knew I was leaving something important out! Whoops

Wished I wasn't getting mixed opinions on the trunion upgrade. However, I am a firm believer that no matter what you try to do, there is always a chance something goes wrong.. even more so when you start modifying. So I guess what I am saying is that I am going to be the same level of sad if a stock or upgraded rocker should happen to fail! The car and motor both have 21k on them. Who ports stock pumps? Is that cost effective over just buying a Melling?

And yes, I have a plan for suspension, too! I was actually thinking with street tires, I was gonna have to worry more about spin than hop (both are problems, but only one breaks stuff!)

Longer-term planning is:

1) The cam and heads right now

2) Gears (hopefully next summer) to help offset the low end loss of cam (and I would think, further increase aforementioned spin)

3) Beef up suspension and driveline (axles, clutch, possibly driveshaft)

4) Decent set of drag radials and some skinnies up front, for when she sees the track

5) Boost (undetermined as to WHAT at this point, and is probably years away when she's all paid off) and appropriate fueling to meet demands

6) Whatever the weak link is that breaks after this

Only cosmetic mod I really want right now is a heritage grill, so will be sneaking that in some day as money allows.

[Bandit63]

I’m going with the TSP 3.2 cam and LT headers this winter. I already have 3.91 gears installed.

[QUICRNU]

That Car is Beautiful!