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Old 03-28-2020, 10:53 AM   #113
Vanishing Point
 
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Originally Posted by blake-b View Post
The Kong does not come with a lid. You would need an OEM lid (good luck!), a DSX lid, or wait on the release of the Kong lid (rumored to be about $2k but has a massive, dual pass heat exchanger).
Yeah, I’d be putting it on an LSX with an undersized E-Force on it, so I wouldn’t have the lid and cooler they’re counting on me having to upgrade. Seems retarded to not sell a complete unit, only enough components to upgrade from one particular set up.

So basically, I can’t use the Maggie because it won’t fit without cutting my hood, and I can’t use the Kong because I’m not starting from a ZL1 stock blower, so I can keep the top half and throw the bottom of it away? Seems a real waste. If Kong made tops, the ZL1 blowers could be resold as whole units. That should more than pay the additional cost of the top for the Kong. Crazy. Apparently I could use a Harrop. I’ve been scared on that by some quality comments.

If I continue to wait, word is from like a year or two ago, that Maggie is working on configuring a unit that will fit under our hoods. And if I continue to wait, word is from this comment above that Kong will actually finish making a complete unit.

What is wrong with these people? Doesn’t anyone actually want to sell a 2650 to us Gen5s? Years I’ve been waiting.

Well one good bit of news is that you say the Kong will have very good cooling. That was my major reason why I might pass them up and continue to wait on the under-the-hood Maggie. It is supposed to have very good IATs. If that’s true about both of them, first one to develop a unit for me gets my business.

I think I’ll call or email both Kong and Maggie Monday, to confirm that’s where things stand. I’ll post back with replies.

Last edited by Vanishing Point; 03-28-2020 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 03-28-2020, 11:12 AM   #114
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So get a whipple
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Old 03-28-2020, 11:18 AM   #115
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So get a whipple
Nah. The 2.65 TVSs are more efficient, cooler, and producing more power than the 2.9 Whipples. And if I have to then go up in size on the Whipple, then it won’t fit under the hood either. They’ve been made somewhat obsolete at this point, for this application.

If you have one and it’s working for you, great. But there’s no logic to select it at this point, unless one doesn’t have the remaining patience to wait for the last of the details to be worked out on the 2.65s. I’ve waited this long, I’m in till the end. Every now and then, I’ve just got to step back in and inquire on the status.

Last edited by Vanishing Point; 03-28-2020 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 03-28-2020, 02:24 PM   #116
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Just thought you were looking for options that fit under the hood. Get to around 900whp on the whipple but you probably already know that, they have a great belt tensioner and wrap. If i were looking for more than that I'd be going Twin turbo, AGPs seem to have very good looking term life and easily surpass the 1000whp mark. Even pushing a PD to the max is taxing on things they are much rougher on things all around especially at those levels. To each their own though.
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Old 03-28-2020, 05:44 PM   #117
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Just thought you were looking for options that fit under the hood. Get to around 900whp on the whipple but you probably already know that, they have a great belt tensioner and wrap. If i were looking for more than that I'd be going Twin turbo, AGPs seem to have very good looking term life and easily surpass the 1000whp mark. Even pushing a PD to the max is taxing on things they are much rougher on things all around especially at those levels. To each their own though.
Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I am looking for it to fit under the hood, but if that’s all I was looking for, yeah, I could go with the 2.9 Whipple, turbos, centrifugal, or even in the 2650 TVS I could go with the Harrop. I could go with the Kong and buy a top to splice onto it. So there is, even at this moment, lots of options. But I’ve decided on the 2650 and want it under the hood, with very cool temperatures, high quality manufacturer, and I don’t wat to have to buy 2 superchargers to end up with one.

That keeps getting closer, but not yet met. Word is both Maggie and Kong are working on resolving meeting these requirements for my configuration “soon”. Don’t like the heat, space taking, weight, extra expense, and all the tubing of a twin turbo. Don’t like the additional tubing or noise of the centrifugal. Don’t like the lag on either the TT or the centrifugal. Like the factory like installation, cooler temps, compactness, reliability, and instant power delivery of a roots. They just haven’t been big enough until the 2650. I’ve got a very stout forged LSX that can take the stress of that instant boost.

Now that roots are bigger and more powerful, that eliminates the need for the Whipple screws to provide the option on the higher levels to imitate them...but not quite. Of course they still will do that above 1000rwhp where the roots now ends. It’s roots-like and if you like that, its your only option where the roots end. Moving that end point, sort of displaces a lot of the 2.9 market now. 1000rwhp is enough for me. It’s not a track car trying to milk every last tenth.

They’ve made them more efficient now so that it’s actually less parasitic loss on the 2650 than on the 2300, making it easier on the belts than even the smaller factory roots. Big leap forward. So that is not an issue.

Last edited by Vanishing Point; 03-28-2020 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 03-28-2020, 07:06 PM   #118
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So, question. You say you like the low IATs for the maggie with current set up, but it doesn't fit under the hood correct? Do you have any idea how they are going to lower the profile? Will they have to put a smaller cooler in it to sit it lower? If so the IATs might suffer. Have you ever driven in a TT camaro? I haven't but I've heard the really isnt any lag too speak of. Doubt there's as much low end grunt but i guess it depends on what you're doing with the car. I agree i think those centrifugals are way too loud. Personal opinion.
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Old 03-28-2020, 07:33 PM   #119
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So, question. You say you like the low IATs for the maggie with current set up, but it doesn't fit under the hood correct? Do you have any idea how they are going to lower the profile? Will they have to put a smaller cooler in it to sit it lower? If so the IATs might suffer. Have you ever driven in a TT camaro? I haven't but I've heard the really isnt any lag too speak of. Doubt there's as much low end grunt but i guess it depends on what you're doing with the car. I agree i think those centrifugals are way too loud. Personal opinion.
It’s not too high at the body of the unit. It’s the intake. More accurately, the angle of the intake. They won’t reconstruct and re-engineer the whole unit to make it fit. There’s no need. They could probably just put a downturned snout on it then keep the diameter the same but pointed down instead of straight forward as it is now. They’re already selling them for Dodges and I think others and they don’t have smaller intercoolers.

It’s my pure speculation that this is all a marketing game. Magnuson is extremely chummy with GM. GM wants people to buy new models. They aren’t selling as well as 5th Gen. if they make this highly desirable unit available for 5th Gen, they will lose some incentive for the newer models. Magnuson couldn’t probably care less which model their unit goes onto, but if that’s what it takes to keep the GM arrangement in tact, they’ll temporarily sacrifice the 5th Gen sales to make GM happy.

That will hold...up to a point. When Harrop and Kong, Edelbrock and others start filling that gap, then Maggie won’t just be delaying those sales, they will lose those sales forever, and at that point it won’t serve GMs purpose to withhold Maggies from 5th Gen market either because people are getting them elsewhere anyway, and they would weaken the market position of their market manipulating partner company. So my guess is, as soon as Kong gets a full unit package together with superior cooling and gets ready to eat up the 5th Gen market, all of a sudden Maggie will make the minor angle adjustment to the intake (which was probably developed years ago) and start selling 5th Gen under-the-hood units too.

Its like an extension of ZL1 exclusive options or any other exclusive package, just extended into the model year and the aftermarket underhandedly. They’re like Apple denying you aps, peripherals like cases and upgrades, purposely programming your processor to underperform claiming it was to extend your battery, trying to push you into the latest model iphone. Business...ain’t it a bitch.

Do you really think there’s any more room under the 6 gen hood than the 5th gen hood? And that somehow Magnuson was incompetent enough to find that fine line of that difference to fit the 6th Gen, but not the 5th Gen? Just stupid happenstance that is costing them not to fill all these waiting sales? C’mon Man!

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Old 03-29-2020, 08:15 AM   #120
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I see, i never looked into why they didn't fit under the hood
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:24 AM   #121
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My Harrop TVS2650 fits under my stock hood with only a little trimming of the rain deflector.
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:11 AM   #122
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Im bringing my car to the shop this Friday to start installing and setting up my new Harrop equipped engine. Going to start out with the middle pulley, what we used on the engine dyno when we got 1155 hp. Only 15 lbs of boost. I want to see if my built trans can handle it. We have a bunch of power available if we need more. Can go up to 20 lbs of boost and at the time of the dyno runs it wouldn't run over 7200 rpm as the NW throttle body was closing before we got to 8,000 rpm. I'll keep you all in the loop on our progress.
Ahh, mrvenicess, you sorta dropped right off of this thread. Many of us were awaiting your final results. Your rwhp, pictures, pressure, temps if possible would be great, tranny holding up, etc. Last we heard in last July was it was still in process. Can you please update us on your final results?

I didnít want to keep prodding you for them and figured something didnít work out since you never got back with us. Maybe you just forgot, since it had been so long, that you left this thread hanging. Thanks in advance for whatever insight you can provide on the results of your Harrop 2650 install.
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Old 03-30-2020, 01:35 PM   #123
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Ahh, mrvenicess, you sorta dropped right off of this thread. Many of us were awaiting your final results. Your rwhp, pictures, pressure, temps if possible would be great, tranny holding up, etc. Last we heard in last July was it was still in process. Can you please update us on your final results?

I didnít want to keep prodding you for them and figured something didnít work out since you never got back with us. Maybe you just forgot, since it had been so long, that you left this thread hanging. Thanks in advance for whatever insight you can provide on the results of your Harrop 2650 install.
I'm still waiting for the damn thing to get finished! The guy doing the work kinda put me on the back burner while he had other stuff going on like having a baby! I have also been dealing with a very ill friend so that has taken my focus away from cars too. Now that Im out of quarantine, I travelled to England to attend my cousins birthday, I plan to go check on the car this week and prod them into finishing it! It's so close!
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Old 03-30-2020, 02:07 PM   #124
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I'm still waiting for the damn thing to get finished! The guy doing the work kinda put me on the back burner while he had other stuff going on like having a baby! I have also been dealing with a very ill friend so that has taken my focus away from cars too. Now that Im out of quarantine, I travelled to England to attend my cousins birthday, I plan to go check on the car this week and prod them into finishing it! It's so close!
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Bless and keep you brother. Iíll keep an eye out.
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Old 03-31-2020, 03:01 PM   #125
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I stated earlier I would be checking Maggie and Kong for status, and let you guys know the results.

I got an email from Greg at Kong today. It has a pic of their already developed complete unit. He said they will be ready for sale in about a week. This is a quote from his email:

“ This unit has an intercooler that has about triple the cooling capacity of a standard ZL1 lid.”

It is very low profile, easily fitting my application, quality product, very cool IATs, has produced over 1,000rwhp for customers with proper builds (like mine), and avoids the asshole tactics of Magnuson, always promising its coming while turning their backs on Gen5 and seemingly manipulating the market for years. I’m going to be on this very soon. I’ll report my results after install.

I’m not going to bother checking on the status of Magnuson unit adjusting to fit our applications. They’ve lied about it so many times already, what credibility could one put into anything they said about its progress anyway. And if they were both ready at the same time, I’d rather give my business to Kong anyway.

If Kong said they weren’t really developing this or had no idea when it was coming, and it was either Harrop or Maggie, I would check on the status of the Maggie, but at this point, if Maggie had the unit for my needs tomorrow, they could sit on it. Hope they lose those sales forever. They shouldn’t have delayed our application for years, while producing them for others.
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:03 PM   #126
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Nice, a Kong complete unit? Almost wishing i waited until this year to SC...
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