How Much To R&R Long Block?

[PBANDPKSCAMARO]

So getting ready to build the car. Got all the suspension and rear end parts getting installed in 2 weeks. Have the torque converter and transcooler. Only thing really left is to decide about how to make the power.

After looking at some of the "cam install prices" I was thinking, it might cost a little more, but seems to make sense to just pull the stock long block and sell it and put a new, built, long block in.

Those that have, how much did you pay to r&r the long block and drop a new, built one in?

[Bodywerks]

That's going to be an entire extra cost. Just cam and/or heads don't require engine removal, so it's not one of those 'while I'm there I'll change the block out, too' kind of deals.
That said, there's a few things that don't need to be removed for access, and working on the engine on a stand is child's play compared to under the hood. But it's still a lot of work.
Just speculation, but I'd say expect to add a grand, maybe 1500 to just a cam swap.

[Bodywerks]

And you'd obviously go 416 stroker or 427, right? In which case I'd be jealous.

[PBANDPKSCAMARO]

Originally Posted by Bodywerks

That's going to be an entire extra cost. Just cam and/or heads don't require engine removal, so it's not one of those 'while I'm there I'll change the block out, too' kind of deals.
That said, there's a few things that don't need to be removed for access, and working on the engine on a stand is child's play compared to under the hood. But it's still a lot of work.
Just speculation, but I'd say expect to add a grand, maybe 1500 to just a cam swap.

I realize it will. But if I am replacing the heads as well (and everything else that's associated with a h/c swap...lifters, pushrods, etc, etc) just seems like a lot of labor to take apart and put back together along with a lot of other waste...

Quote I got, from a reputable shop who is a vendor on here was $1900 in just labor for a VVT cam swap.

Shops feel free to chime in or pm....also members who have done this tell me your thoughts!

[Bodywerks]

Oh yeah, forgot about the vvt part.

[hazy]

it was $1,500 on mine. I didn't pay it, as the prev owner is the one who modded the car, but I do have the invoice from the shop. Currently have ERL 416 in there now

[EFI]

After looking at some of the "cam install prices" I was thinking, it might cost a little more, but seems to make sense to just pull the stock long block and sell it and put a new, built, long block in.

Here's the thing...all or most of the work required to do the cam and subsequent upgrades will have to also be done when the engine is out of the car. While it may be easier, they still need to be done.

So you're not going to save that much money and or time by doing the work with the engine out. All the effort saved there will be completely overshadowed by the effort to take the engine out and back in.

Unless you just really want a new bigger engine it does't make much sense to take the current one out just to do heads and cam.

[PBANDPKSCAMARO]

Originally Posted by EFI

Here's the thing...all or most of the work required to do the cam and subsequent upgrades will have to also be done when the engine is out of the car. While it may be easier, they still need to be done.

So you're not going to save that much money and or time by doing the work with the engine out. All the effort saved there will be completely overshadowed by the effort to take the engine out and back in.

Unless you just really want a new bigger engine it does't make much sense to take the current one out just to do heads and cam.

Just trying to weigh options, cost, vs the value I'd be getting. I understand it will cost more money just trying to see how much. Obviously with a new short block sitting on a stand it does not take near as long to install a cam, lifters, etc, etc and the trans will already be unbolted as well for a build and converter/cooler addition.

So roughly....$11,000.00....new vvt cam, heads (ones I am looking at are $2200), trans build, converter/cooler install, labor and tune.

The other way....still have $2200 heads, $1400 cam kit, $4000 in trans parts build and converter/cooler install, $500 tune....that's $8500....$6000 for built shortblock is $14500....with $1500 allotted for r&ring the old one that's $16000.

Sell old long block for $2500-$3000....so $13500-$14000 out of pocket. Does that sound about right?

[hazy]

Here's the estimate for my work. Again, this was all done by the prev owner...I've removed any mention of the shop or PO, so hopefully it's within the guidelines of the site here...if not, I'm sure someone will tell me to pull it down.

[Taco Time]

If I could do mine all over again I would have done all of my bolt-on mods when I did my new motor. It may not have saved a ton of money but I'd bet it would have saved at least $1,000. Instead of having my block made into a 417, I sold my existing long block and purchased a new 417 long block from FSP. (They're much more local to you than they are to me. I'd contact Matt, if anything just for another option for you.) I sold my long block on Craigslist (very quickly!) and it sold for more than people on this forum say they're worth. If your end goal is full bolt-on, cammed stroker motor then I'd be patient and save up to do it all at the same time. You're paying to get tuned once and you're going to save a good bit on labor costs.

Good luck!

[PBANDPKSCAMARO]

Originally Posted by hazy

Here's the estimate for my work. Again, this was all done by the prev owner...I've removed any mention of the shop or PO, so hopefully it's within the guidelines of the site here...if not, I'm sure someone will tell me to pull it down.

Thank you very much for doing that!

[PBANDPKSCAMARO]

Originally Posted by Taco Time

If I could do mine all over again I would have done all of my bolt-on mods when I did my new motor. It may not have saved a ton of money but I'd bet it would have saved at least $1,000. Instead of having my block made into a 417, I sold my existing long block and purchased a new 417 long block from FSP. (They're much more local to you than they are to me. I'd contact Matt, if anything just for another option for you.) I sold my long block on Craigslist (very quickly!) and it sold for more than people on this forum say they're worth. If your end goal is full bolt-on, cammed stroker motor then I'd be patient and save up to do it all at the same time. You're paying to get tuned once and you're going to save a good bit on labor costs.

Good luck!

I haven't decided my end goal yet lol but it sounds like you understand what I am getting at.

PM me, if you wouldn't mind, what you got for your long block and how many miles were on it.

Thanks!

[christianchevell]

I went with a engine from ebay after checking around myself from custom engine supply in Angola Indiana part of Sag performance group. The price ended up being $5000 for a Forged short block 428 , ( only about 200$ more for a little bit more stroke) , with Molnar connecting rods and crank, and Racetek pistons, I went online and checked out the parts and they are real good and the pistons are from the prior owner of JE pistons who sold it, ( like the worlds largest piston supplier) and built up a new business in the sunshine after getting bored. And Molnar is better known by the names that take them and brand them their own....Like names I could not afford in other words.... Callies, Wisco k1, etc ... SO I was happy with the quality and the clearance of the block with the attention they gave to making sure to tell me what extras I could get like the Oil passage restrictor and rear seal etc. Also I was real happy I saved $400 by buying when it was not so close to summer as the price went up online I noticed. It was between them and Thompson motor sports for online as far as I could see and I looked all over.

CYLINDER BLOCK: GM LS3 ALUMINUM
BLOCK SIZE: 9.240 DECK HEIGHT
FASTENERS: ARP & GMPP
STATIC COMPRESSION RATIO : 11.01:1 W/ 68.5
COMBUSTION CHAMBER & .015 IN THE HOLE WITH .051
GASKET
CYLINDER BORE SIZE: 4.066
PISTON SIZE: 4.062 DIAMETER, 15 DEGREE VALVE ANGLE, -
5CC FT , 1.5, 1.5 3MM RING PACK
PISTON: 4032 ALLOY FORGED LOW EXPANSION
ROD: MOLNAR 4340 BILLET H-BEAM 6.125 WITH ARP 2000
7/16 ROD BOLTS
CRANK: MOLNAR 4340 FORGED 4.125 STROKE W/ 2.100 ROD PIN 1PC REAR MAIN SEAL LS1 MAIN
BALANCED INTERNAL/NEUTRAL
PISTON TO DECK CLEARACE: -0.015
PISTON TO HEAD CLEARANCE: .066
PISTON TO CYLINDER WALL: .004
HEAD GASKETS:
BEARINGS: KING STD XP ROD COATED & KING XP MAIN STD COATED (NARROWED TRI-METAL RACE BEARINGS)
RINGS: TOTAL SEAL CLASSIC SERIES DUCTILE IRON MOLY FILE FIT
CAMSHAFT:
CAM SPECS:
RING END GAP: .020 1

ST RING GAP .020 2ND RING GAP
ROD JOURNAL SIZE: 2.100 MAIN JOURNAL SIZE: 2.559
ROD BEARING OIL CLEARANCE: .002
MAIN BEARING OIL CLEARANCE: .0018 (IMPORTANT: NEW ENGINE MUST BE PRIMED BEFORE CRANKING OR STARTING)
CRANK END PLAY: .005
ROD SIDE CLEARANCE: .020
LIFTERS:
PUSH RODS:
ROCKER ARMS:
HEADS :
HEAD SET UP: VALVE SPRINGS INSTALL HEIGHT = LBS CLOSED ON SEAT LBS OPEN
COIL BIND = ( FROM COIL BIND AS HEADS ARE SET UP)
PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANCE: INTAKE EXHAUST (CLAY METHOD)
EFI:
OTHER INFORMATION:
NO SYNTHEIC OIL SHOULD BE USED FOR AT LEAST 3500 ODOMETER MILES OF DRIVING OR RINGS MAY NOT FULLY SEAT.
ENGINE RINGS ARE LOWER TENSION THIN METRIC DESIGN AND ARE NOT COMPATIABLE WITH THICK OILS. 5W/30W OR NO THICKER THAN
5W/40W IS RECOMMENDED

CUSTOM ENGINE BLUE PRINT SHEET
SAG PERFORMANCE GROUP (WWW.SAGPERFORMANCE.COM)
BUILT 6/2015
CUSTOMER: MARK MINCHER
MAKE: SMALL BLOCK CHEVROLET 15 DEGREE LS3 V8
CUBIC INCH: 428
RECOMMENDED FUEL:

PREMIUM PUMP GAS

DESIGNED & SOLD BY: JERRY LONG OF SAG PERFORMANCE
CONTACT: PHONE (785) 408-2911

E-MAIL ADDRESS: JERRY@SAGPERFORMANCE.COM

And I went with GMPP ported factory heads new with hollow intakes valves for $1200 from Summit. They out flowed a lot of others more spendy porting. Well that's how I saved money so far, I am still waiting for the Corvette that's waiting for a motor to get my install as I go to a one man shop that's constantly booked even with lots of competition in the same city...Vancouver WA. As I only want to use the best I could find as tuning does really matter. And talk about parts with the Guru and such and expect to be in the 550 rear wheel torque range which matters more to me than just high h.p.. as our cars are heavy, and 600+ h.p most likely. And the short block shipping was free..... I am on a budget not blind, and I know all the parts have added up, and everything should end up with about 13K for all said and done including Katech timing chain ,( not into grinding out the stock timing chain cover for double roller), ported oil pump high volume, dog bone ls2 chain dampener, Comp cam trunnion upgraded rockers, trick flow 7.425 hardened pushrods, Mast windage tray for a stroked motor: not into making the oil pump pick up too low in the pan or having the stock windage tray clearanced and shimmed with washers... I bought new LS7/ls3 lifters for $95 ebay shipped, I have saved everyway I can and researched over and over. I wish I was near a cheap performance shop but I am not, My Tuner gets $100 a hour because he is worth it and does not have cheap helpers so I pay to play, and he did my last cam/header install/ h.p. dyno tune and it came out to $2300 with tax with almost all the parts bought by me. Well good luck to you, I plan on around the same plus a little more in labor and he is installing my new modded ZL1 clutch from Monster and MGW shifter that's included in my build price the clutch is a dual with 700 rwhp rating for $1100 and I am doing a remote bleeder and billet release bearing support also. And of course I use Driven racing BR30 to do a double break in on the engine , ( which BTW is insisted apon by some very major chains even included in the price by some like TSP), then switch to ls30 after 500 miles as the valves etc... are seated by then and I also have a magnetic oil pan plug as I cover my bases better than most. I could have went cast iron and had the ability to bore it out or sleeve it in the future or gone spendy with a Dart block but that gains weight like 70lbs + and I look at our block as a 1200$ disposable block as they can only be honed not bored due to their cast in sleeves that are not always 100 % aligned right and get align honed factory and can only go .020 over.....Many do not know that, SO just saying a .005 over hone to get to a 415/416 etc is the same as for a 428 with only slightly more stroke to get to the larger displacement and just a little more clearancing and cost for the crank. Anyway good luck on your build !!! I am dying of anticipation myself ........ And PSS I went with a cam motion 8620 core stage three cam custom ground just for insurance as its the hardest around though my old TSP .639.623 still looks fine after 10K miles. And for the heck of it I bought some granatelli wires..., painted my intake and waterpump and bought some aluminum coil covers for $100 on ebay that they sell for like $200 at SLP.....

[Taco Time]

Originally Posted by PBANDPKSCAMARO

I haven't decided my end goal yet lol but it sounds like you understand what I am getting at.

PM me, if you wouldn't mind, what you got for your long block and how many miles were on it.

Thanks!

Sent