Old Muscle car 1/4mi times are inaccurate.

[f5journal]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Hooker Headers = not stock, was a bolt-on.

11 second stock GTO? Don't think so.

13-14 and yes even 15 seconds was the norm for most old muscle cars. Many could be coaxed into the 12s with bolt-ons and slicks. 11s were rare for street driven cars. Right now is the golden age of muscle cars.

+1

[TOMS1SS]

I'll add this since nobody has brought it up. Modern performance cars not only are fast (in majority case) but they also do much more fuel efficiently and lets not forget how much better they handle. You haven't experienced body roll until you drive a good ole 60s/70s muslce car with 14s or 15s on it.

[chuckstacamaro]

Originally Posted by Ironheadspearo

My father had a brand new 67 GTO back in the day, his came stock with hooker headers and hurst shifter. he added wrinkle wall slicks and was in the 11 seconds with basically a semi stock car.

I owned a stock 1967 GTO and it did not come with headers from the factory and the best it would run was high 13's with the top of the line Ram Air IV package with 3.90 gears. With modifications a 67 GTO could run in the 12s but not 11s unless it had a complete blueprinted rebuild with many modifications.

[HDDAN]

take a good look at the gears in the older cars. They came with 3.90s, 4.11s and in some cases 4.56s. The modern cars come with 3.23s (A6), 3.43s (M6). Try running some 4.56s in a new Camaro SS and see if it will whomp the older cars.

[justa25thTA]

Originally Posted by Fearer2010SS

I'll add this since nobody has brought it up. Modern performance cars not only are fast (in majority case) but they also do much more fuel efficiently and lets not forget how much better they handle. You haven't experienced body roll until you drive a good ole 60s/70s muslce car with 14s or 15s on it.

and they can stop and have air conditioning and power windows and...

[TheClassicCarKid]

Originally Posted by Fearer2010SS

Ummm you do know that before 1972 these cars were rated SAE gross? So take an engine like an LS5 making 365hp/465lb-ft in Chevelle SS application only made 270hp/390lb-ft in 1972. The only difference is that SAE gross ratings measure power without any accessories attached to the engine, while SAE net measures them with on. SAE net is how engine power is measured to today. The LS3 or L99 would smoke any classic musclecar power wise if your convert the figures back to SAE gross.

As for musclecars having crappy tires your right about that. But what your forgetting is that automakers would often send tricked out ringer cars to these auto magazine tests rather than the "real" stock version. Case and point would be the 421 64 GTO........

If we're losing 100hp by adding accessories, then sending it to the driveshaft, my dad's Chevelle in 1968 was down to about 180 at the rear wheels as he didn't change anything other than take off the extra emissions equipment that CA required to be added at the time. He borrowed slicks and ran two 13.5's at oc raceway. The "tricked out ringer car" that Chevrolet sent Motortrend ran a 16 flat stock. I think you might be a little misinformed.

[TheClassicCarKid]

Originally Posted by Solocus

I always thought the 13.1 time for the ZL-1 was considered the fastest of all factory stock (Production) cars (tires included) of the muscle car era. Are you sure that 13.1 time was with slicks? Given the weight to HP ratio I would think this car with slicks would run mid 12s or so, possibly even better.

ZL1 ran mid 11's with slicks and headers

[TOMS1SS]

Originally Posted by TheClassicCarKid

I'm no expert like you seem to be, but if we're losing 100hp by adding accessories, then sending it to the driveshaft, my dad's Chevelle in 1968 was down to about 180 at the rear wheels as he didn't change anything other than take off the extra emissions equipment that CA required to be added at the time. He borrowed slicks and ran two 13.5's at oc raceway. The "tricked out ringer car" that Chevrolet sent Motortrend ran a 16 flat stock. Tell us again they're underpowered and it wasn't just the tires holding them back

So I take it the HHR is yours and not the 396 Chevelle?

[TOMS1SS]

Originally Posted by TheClassicCarKid

Unfortunately the Chevelle is now mine.

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Seriously? If you don't want it I'll take it off your hands no matter what condition its in.

[TheClassicCarKid]

Originally Posted by Fearer2010SS

\\

Seriously? If you don't want it I'll take it off your hands no matter what condition its in.

lol I didn't mean it like that
I guess it's pointless to argue since the odds of us finding a bone stock 40+ year old car are pretty slim, and the owner letting us run it down a track in different configurations are even slimmer

No doubt the old muscle cars couldn't hold up to what's being produced today, and I don't expect them to. But the fact that they were about the fastest factory cars out there until at least the 90's is where this reverence we see comes from, and people are going to get very defensive because of that. Ultimately our viewpoints on this are probably pretty similar, I just think they made more power than you do

[TOMS1SS]

Originally Posted by TheClassicCarKid

lol I didn't mean it like that
I guess it's pointless to argue since the odds of us finding a bone stock 40+ year old car are pretty slim, and the owner letting us run it down a track in different configurations are even slimmer

No doubt the old muscle cars couldn't hold up to what's being produced today, and I don't expect them to. But the fact that they were about the fastest factory cars out there until at least the 90's is where this reverence we see comes from, and people are going to get very defensive because of that. Ultimately our viewpoints on this are probably pretty similar, I just think they made more power than you do

I'll say this about Rat Motors, there is virtually no difference between what you would see in a Chevelle, Nova, Camaro or Impala vs a Corvette. Yet somehow the Corvette always gets a much higher power number and is usually rated at a higher RPM. Misleading? Hell yes, but that's how GM has always rolled with its special child.

[PercyJWellingtonIII]

Originally Posted by myblackcamaros

Oh if I had a dollar for everytime I heard that $100 crap! Those stories don't work when you tell them to somebody who's raced in the mid to low 7's in the quarter! How do you think we reach for the parachute among other functions.

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Yeh.. thats the difference between a 3 or 4 speed transmission gearing and a 6 speed trans gearing.