Do you think GM missed the ball my making the z/28 a track only car?

[racer50200]

Originally Posted by Ayuir

GM put what was necessary into the Z/28 to bring back the feel of the original. Not everyone could have one new then, nor now. Nor should they. This is the next best thing to a race car you're going to get off the showroom floor. It isn't for everyone.

Too many folks are thinking about a 1982 Z/28 (as an example). It was nice, it was fast, it was comfortable, but it was a watered-down version of what the car was in 1967. They've gone back to their roots and I think that's a good thing.

This car won't be for everyone. Lots of guesses as to the price (note: guesses). Some reasonable guesses, but guesses none the less. Will it be expensive? Yes. Most of us won't be able to afford one new. Buy one used in a few years. Wait for a C6 Z/28 that someone mentioned a day or two ago.

With the CAFE standards driving mandated mileage up, the Z/28 will get watered down again just like happened in the 70s and 80s. Or, if GM chooses to keep it pure, the price will go WAY up. The CAFE penalties apply to the GM fleet as a whole. A Z/28 drags down the average for the fleet making penalties more likely for GM. They have to either enginer the rest of the fleet for even greater mileage or pay the cost. Guess what, that CAFE penalty is going to get passed on in sticker price. Think they're going to raise the price of a Malibu to cover the cost of a Z/28's mileage?

Nope.

As much as I'd love to have a Z/28 badge on my Camaro, it isn't going to happen. The Z/28 needs to stay based on it's original form, and I think GM has nailed it. I need a DD and so as much as it pains me, A Z/28 isn't in my future. Maybe a 1LE, probably not a ZL1, maybe a modded out 2SS/RS.

But the point is, GM has given all of us the choices to find the Camaro that fits each of us. Don't cry because you can't get the badge you want, instead get the performance and comfort combination that works for you and THEN look at what badge you end up with. Then revel in that badge and boast about it all day.

After all, you could be driving a Mustang....

Well said! GM cannot possibly build the perfect car for everyone. The Z/28 is a magnificent car and lives up to its heritage which is the best street-legal Camaro track car that Chevrolet can produce. If it's not what you want, don't buy it. But frankly, I'm pretty disappointed with the amount of, shall we say, 'complaining' that is going on here. I'm amazed at the choices that are available in the Camaro lineup. Find one that fits your needs, buy it, if necessary mod it, and enjoy. Or go buy a Mustang! But don't 'complain' because GM didn't make exactly what you want.

And remember what fbodfather said about CAFE standards. I believe his point was that there was no way that GM was going to stick the LS7 in a 1LE and sell it as a $5k upgrade. I don't think GM has the CAFE room to sell 10,000 of those things so I don't think that would ever happen. At this rate, the only way GM is going to be able to live within our government's CAFE standards and increase performance for the masses is with the gen6 when they reduce the Camaro's mass. And then it may necessitate a TTV6. I am definitely going to get stock in Kleenex before they announce that!!

All of this over a name....?? The car that everyone seems to want (the '80s Z/28 which was was a street car with some performance improvements) already exists! That is exactly the roll of the 1LE. It will eat a stock SS's lunch all day long (and most Mustang's, for that matter) for only a few dollars more than the SS.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't hate because it's not what you expected or wanted. Look at the Z/28 and be amazed at what GM can do when it wants to! The Camaro lineup ROCKS!!!

[Wizard1183]

Originally Posted by racer50200

Well said! GM cannot possibly build the perfect car for everyone. The Z/28 is a magnificent car and lives up to its heritage which is the best street-legal Camaro track car that Chevrolet can produce. If it's not what you want, don't buy it. But frankly, I'm pretty disappointed with the amount of, shall we say, 'complaining' that is going on here. I'm amazed at the choices that are available in the Camaro lineup. Find one that fits your needs, buy it, if necessary mod it, and enjoy. Or go buy a Mustang! But don't 'complain' because GM didn't make exactly what you want.

And remember what fbodfather said about CAFE standards. I believe his point was that there was no way that GM was going to stick the LS7 in a 1LE and sell it as a $5k upgrade. I don't think GM has the CAFE room to sell 10,000 of those things so I don't think that would ever happen. At this rate, the only way GM is going to be able to live within our government's CAFE standards and increase performance for the masses is with the gen6 when they reduce the Camaro's mass. And then it may necessitate a TTV6. I am definitely going to get stock in Kleenex before they announce that!!

All of this over a name....?? The car that everyone seems to want (the '80s Z/28 which was was a street car with some performance improvements) already exists! That is exactly the roll of the 1LE. It will eat a stock SS's lunch all day long (and most Mustang's, for that matter) for only a few dollars more than the SS.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't hate because it's not what you expected or wanted. Look at the Z/28 and be amazed at what GM can do when it wants to! The Camaro lineup ROCKS!!!

CAFE is an extremely small portion that shouldnt even matter. An ls7 in a camaro and only getting 15mpg if its not a major contender in sales shouldn't make a difference to CAFE. It's based on a stages among 4 fleets. Producing 5000 (52000 produced in 2010 so I'm going on 10%) Z-28s does not constitute a fleet when you can slip the ZL-1 in its place; but marginally an SS would represent the camaro with CAFE. When you're producing a small amount of cars that will not make up a large percent sold, that car is non existent within CAFE standards.

Example. Oil refineries produce certain amount of pollution. Large one produce more than small refineries. In USA we have cap credits. Of a small percent don't produce too much pollution, the larger refinery can purchase the cap credits from the smaller do that they don't get a fine for not adhering to their cap max.

This means 5000 Z-28s isn't enough to be thrown into CAFE when chevy has trucks, camaros, spark and impala. How many camaros are made a yr?

[Doc]

Apparently a lot of the "kiddies" who are complaining about the "old" people don't know who Mark Stielow is. He made this car THE choice for a street-legal track car. I have only three complaints. 1. The back is boring. 2. They should make the gorgeous frost satin white a production color. 3. They should have included the 4 minor gauges and put them in the vertical area above the center dash vents.

Other than that this car is epic. I just ran a check on the tires and those babies go for over $700 each! This car isn't for the 95% average owner types. If you're complaining about A/C, radios, etc. then this isn't designed for you; get something else. This car is for fast drivers. Fast drivers who go out on road courses and push it for tenths-of-a-second faster on each corner. They don't need radios and A/C.

I just wonder what the price of all this fun is going to be; especially when a set of tires alone cost $3k!

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by SQUALO

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You don't have to agree with it.
Who are you to tell me how and where to post.

When it's a subject I'm interested in I read all posts in a thread.

Seeing the same post copied/pasted into various threads is monotonous and unnecessary. At least come up with an original thought in response to a specific question.

[90503]

Glancing throught this thread there seems to be more Dodge and Ford guys who are stoked about this car than Chevy guys...lol...Interesting...I hope the other brands try to "catch-up"...It's good for everyone...

[Mikes SS]

These are going to be garage queens that see very very minimal track time. The ones that want to track to find tenths in the corners have the ability and do build their own cars, and most of them can even see the significance of just buying a 1SS and modding it how they choose. Don't kid yourselves, it's a great car, but maybe 10 of the 2000 sold will see a track day. For those of you who will be able to afford one, enjoy it, it is meant to be driven!

[Mikes SS]

The dodge and Ford guys are stoked not because they are gonna buy one, but because they now have hopes that their brand will come to the table with something competitive.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Mikes SS

The dodge and Ford guys are stoked not because they are gonna buy one, but because they now have hopes that their brand will come to the table with something competitive.

I read in Motor Trend that Dodge has already announced they were going to come up with their own version for the Challenger, now that the Barracuda has been delayed.

[Jim968]

Originally Posted by Mikes SS

These are going to be garage queens that see very very minimal track time.

Don't kid yourselves, it's a great car, but maybe 10 of the 2000 sold will see a track day.

I disagree, and here's why.

In 1993 and 1994 Porsche built a 911 model called the RS America. The car was built as a street legal track car. It had uprated suspension, brakes, aero, wheels and tires. It also had significantly reduced weight from deleted AC, power steering, radio/stereo, cruise control, sunroof etc. Rear seats were removed and replaced with light weight carpet. Even the door handles were replaced with cloth pull straps. Porsche built only 701 of these cars, but did people hoard them as garage queens and collector items? Hell no. Virtually all of them saw track duty. When I started doing track days in 1996 I would see several of these cars at every event I attended. Even today almost 20 years after they were introduced I can’t go to a PCA event without seeing at least one running around the track. Many have been modified into full blown race cars.

Why should it be any different with the Z/28?

[Forty5th]

No, I don't think GM made a mistake. The primary buyers of Z/28 is for future owners who already have a DD and will seriously track/race the Z therefore using it for its primary role... or just garage/occasionally cruise it. Chances are this may even be a 2nd, 3rd, or nth toy as well. If you don't fall into any of these categories then at least you have plenty of other Camaro choices. So again, no, IMO I don't think GM made a mistake by making the Z/28 a track car as its primary objective.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Jim968

I disagree, and here's why.

In 1993 and 1994 Porsche built a 911 model called the RS America. The car was built as a street legal track car. It had uprated suspension, brakes, aero, wheels and tires. It also had significantly reduced weight from deleted AC, power steering, radio/stereo, cruise control, sunroof etc. Rear seats were removed and replaced with light weight carpet. Even the door handles were replaced with cloth pull straps. Porsche built only 701 of these cars, but did people hoard them as garage queens and collector items? Hell no. Virtually all of them saw track duty. When I started doing track days in 1996 I would see several of these cars at every event I attended. Even today almost 20 years after they were introduced I can’t go to a PCA event without seeing at least one running around the track. Many have been modified into full blown race cars.

Why should it be any different with the Z/28?

Hell, they still race original Shelby Cobras...lol...

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by 90503

Hell, they still race original Shelby Cobras...lol...

Here is the press release for those Porsches.
http://www.rsamerica.net/images/OEM_...an92_P1of1.pdf

[BoostedX2]

I have a 1st gen Z but its going to my son, don't want to work on it/restore any more, I guess I am lazy. Thinking about adding the Z/28 but I think I would save the tires for real track events (that I really wouldn't go to lol ) and get some wheels/tires to drive on the street....

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

Good question. Seems like there's an entire house of people that could have done so instead of lobbying all this time for GM to produce a new version.

Look, I am as happy as the next guy that GM did produce this car, but I also understand why a lot of people aren't. Yes, the original z/28 was built for a specfic purpose, but for the vast majority of people not born in the 1940's/'50's the Z28 name represents something else entirely.

There are any number of Camaro's available for any Camaro fan, why can't the Z/28 be a streetable track car like it was originally designed? Should the Z/28 be just like a ZL1 or an SS?