How Summit racing screwed me

[Cymatic]

In Mid august I purchased various parts to change the cam in my car I purchased the cam, pushrods, springs etc.. from Texas Speed and performance, and I ordered the timing gear set from summit racing. That was a HUGE mistake. When I ordered the gear set from summit racing they recommended I use a specific one, so I looked at it on their website and it didn't say it fit my car so I told them, hey your website says it's for a 6.0 liter engine not a 6.2, they put me on hold and connected me with some tech I told him the same thing and he told me even though it says it didn't fit on their website that it was the same exact one as the ls3 one just for a 3 bolt cam. So I trusted the word of a company that's been around since 1968 I mean they have to know there stuff right? Wrong.... after installation we fired the car up and it ran for maybe 5-10 seconds then just died and would never start again, we tried starting it maybe 5-6 more times after with no luck, so we decided to tear it back down to see what's going on. We take off pulleys, pumps and finally the timing chain cover and the first thing we notice is the timing cover was grounded down by the timing chain(Pictured) and there was aluminum everywhere. Upon looking at the cam gear we noticed it was a 1x cam gear not a 4x cam gear like it should be for the LS3 so we looked deeper and used a borescope to look down in the cylinders and as you can see pictured every single piston was gouged by hitting a valve. At this point my heart sank, the Cam sensor couldn't read the 1x cam gear so as it was spinning it didn't know where the cam was in the rotation, causing the timing to be completely off and pistons to hit valves and even a spark plug. I called Summit racing and explained everything to them, they looked over all pictures and info I sent. It took over a week and a half and they finally call me and tell me that they can't help me out, that the issue couldn't have been from the wrong timing gear set it was that I installed a cam that was "too big". Texas speed is a phenomenal company they spec and grind all of their cams in house. They don't just spec a cam out of no where, they put time and effort into getting the best combination of specs for the ls3 and other engines The cam I ordered had plenty of Piston to valve clearance it even says on there website that's what they are designed for(pictured). In fact Texas speed sells a bigger cam then I ordered and it still has adequate PTV clearance, The fact that summit wouldn't own up to one of their employees recommending parts that are wrong is really frustrating to me and I'm making this post in hopes of saving some people time and money. They even had the recording of the guy recommending the wrong part and they still refuse to help me out AT ALL. Nothing replaced free, no help with machining, not even a freaking discount! Long story short, DO NOT ORDER PARTS FROM SUMMIT RACING!! Had I just ordered the wrong part and installed it and this happened I would have taken full responsibility it would have been my fault, but in this case Summit racing acknowledged that it wasn't the right part and they still recommended I use it. How can you trust ordering from a place that will literally recommend you wrong parts? I can't and you shouldn't, I hope no one else goes through this because this has been a nightmare and now I'm out thousands and a car because of a summit racing tech/employees simple mistake. I know all my car people will understand the Importance of this situation and the feeling of devastation I have right now

[jrhagen]

Wouldn't the installer know there was an issue with the comparability of the parts?

[SquawkVFR]

Originally Posted by jrhagen

SHOULDN'T the installer know there was an issue with the comparability of the parts? (Before hand)

I modified your question just a bit, and I'm not trying to be a smart a$$.

[frankwjr]

bigger q is why did you join the boards just to slam a vendor..sh!t happens and bad on you for not double checkin...

most people joins the boards to get info to AVOID the mistakes you encounter, extremely knowledgeable peeps here just waiting to help out...

good luck and hope things go better for ya! peace out!

[Silver14]

Originally Posted by frankwjr

sh!t happens and bad on you for not double checkin...

good luck and hope things go better for ya!

Agree with both points. Good luck getting it straightened out, but it's ultimately up to the installer to know what they're doing.

Could a 1x vs 4x cam gear actually cause this? How would the pistons and valves make contact if everything was installed correctly, regardless if the cam position sensor is reading the cam gear correctly or not?

[Steve1018]

The cam sensor doesn't control cam timing, this engine was put together severely out of time.

Good luck getting it straightened out man! Imo do it with another installer, these issues should have no doubt been caught during assembly.

[Steve1018]

Actually you can see it in your picture



With the cam dot down that keyway should be pointed toward the drivers side damper bolt area. I think you have the wrong key slot on the lower gear selected. That looks about 3-4 teeth off.

[Synner]

You dorked up the install, they should have given you the right timing set though. If you had degreed the engine you'd know it was installed off. Timing gears don't give your engine mythical VVT capabilities in a 1LE and change your cams position. That's all in how you set it up which was off.

[hammdo]

Originally Posted by Steve1018

Actually you can see it in your picture



With the cam dot down that keyway should be pointed toward the drivers side damper bolt area. I think you have the wrong key slot on the lower gear selected. That looks about 3-4 teeth off.

Steve1018 is right. Looks to be installed incorrect...



Also, the service manual says to measure how far the cam gear/chain is away from the block. There is a number that it cannot exceed. That number is to prevent the gear grinding the timing cover...

Also, there is a check by pulling the cam in and out once the cam cover is in place to see how much play there is. All of that is in the service manual...




-Don

[Cymatic]

The timing set was installed correctly you can see it lined up clear as day look at the actual timing crank gear and you can see the dot is lined up perfectly with the "0" on the crank gear and you can see where it says "a1" to the left for advance and "r1" for retard

[Cymatic]

Install was done by a very experienced mechanic who just did the same swap on the exact same car for another person only difference was the timing gear set I got

[Cymatic]

Originally Posted by Steve1018

The cam sensor doesn't control cam timing, this engine was put together severely out of time.

Good luck getting it straightened out man! Imo do it with another installer, these issues should have no doubt been caught during assembly.

No the cam sensor doesn't but what do you think the cam sensor reads? The cam gear which only has One notch on it Vs a 4x timing gear which has 4 notches to read

[Steve1018]

Originally Posted by Cymatic

No the cam sensor does but what do you think the cam sensor reads? The cam gear which only has One notch on it Vs a 4x timing gear which has 4 notches to read

The cam sensor is there so the ECM knows where the camshaft is at for ignition timing. Has nothing to due with mechanical timing. Mechanical timing is set during installation and cannot be changed without taking the chain back off.

[Cymatic]

https://ibb.co/dBwM15

Its lined up perfectly