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Old 07-26-2019, 08:40 AM   #29
JANNETTYRACING

 
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810 RWHP on a 6 rib.

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Old 07-26-2019, 09:28 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by TheBracketeer View Post
I have been going through this for a year now, and I think I have just got it sorted.

Firstly I had a misalignment issue with one of the idlers in the Innovators West 8 rib kit (they now supply them with bushes to fix this), then I cracked the mounting hole for one of the idlers in the alternator bracket, then I had a faulty idler ... once I got everything aligned, I was still getting belt slap.


FYI, I am running a 10% OD and 3.5" pulley


Here's what I have learned:

In my case, this is not the belt on the tensioner going across and touching the belt on the idler ... It gets close, but doesn't quite touch. It is the tensioner running out of travel so the belt becomes loose on the low side of the engine and derails slightly ... then when the tensioner pulls tight again, one or two of the ribs are running off the pulleys, which shreds the edge of the belt.

Here's the fix.:

1. Removing the top idler will not make a difference ... if it adjusted all the way to the right, the tensioner does not not touch it anyway ... so why remove it and create less wrap-around on the blower pulley?

2. Use the Gates HD belt .. the standard ones stretch too much.

3. Use the shortest belt possible ... I had been using the K080962HD but I could not get the idlers tight enough so that the tensioner maintained enough travel, so I now have the K080952HD. This belt is perfect ... short enough that I have to loosen off the bolts on the idlers so they tilt and then force it onto the water pump.

4. Use a breaker bar and ratchet strap off the driver's side strut tower to pull the tensioner to its fully tightened position ... it should not even be touching the belt at this stage.

5. Get the ribbed idler below the tensioner as tight as you possibly can ... You can use something like a rubber handle of a hammer between the water pump pulley to push against the idler to tighten it (GENTLY) ... and make sure you use a piece of thick rubber or old serpentine belt over the pulley to protect the ribs.

6. Release and remove the ratchet strap, start the car, run it for a while ... the belt will stretch.

7. Replace and re-tighten the ratchet strap, and then re-tension the idler.

The tensioner should be as close to its far clockwise position as possible, with the right side bump stop approx 1/2" from the end and the other side having approx 1-3/4" of travel. That will mean that the tensioner has approx 80% of its travel to keep the belt tight.

I like the idea of the apposing tensioner, however if it runs out of travel in the opposite direction, it will just do exactly the same thing ... the belt will get loose and shred.

I hope this helps anyone who is having similar issues.


See the gap between the tensioner pulley and the idler pulley



This shows just how far clockwise that the tensioner is pulled ... with nearly 1-3/4" of circular travel before it runs out of movement.
Thanks bracketeer

I have done all what you have said already. I even used an RPM belt. I am running a 3.00" pulley. My tensioner does hit the belt with the upper idler on. Without the upper idler the tensioner gets super close.

I also had some issues with the IWest pulleys and had to machine them to align with my set up.
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:29 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post

I have no issues on the dyno either.

Its between shifts that the issues occur
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:07 PM   #32
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I have no issues on the dyno either.

Its between shifts that the issues occur

In particular, if you don't shift quickly enough, and it bounces off the rev-limiter ... right?
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Old 07-26-2019, 03:31 PM   #33
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In particular, if you don't shift quickly enough, and it bounces off the rev-limiter ... right?
When making a pull and shifting at high rpm's
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:07 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by TheBracketeer View Post
In particular, if you don't shift quickly enough, and it bounces off the rev-limiter ... right?
Bracketeer how are you getting a belt K080952HD on with a 3.500 pulley? I can't even get that belt on with my 3.00 pulley. Are you using a 3" idler between the balancer and alternator?
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Old 07-29-2019, 01:06 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by 4U2NV-SS View Post
Bracketeer how are you getting a belt K080952HD on with a 3.500 pulley? I can't even get that belt on with my 3.00 pulley. Are you using a 3" idler between the balancer and alternator?

My bad ... it was a K080956HD, not the 952.


HOWEVER, It seems my problem is not solved. Check out the pic below which I took out of a slow mo video I shot yesterday. It is still getting WAY too close. And even if it doesn't touch the other idler, it is running out of travel on the tensioner.



I am going to take Ted's advice, remove the top idler and then I'm going to try what Gates recommended .. a K080956RPM, which doesn't stretch. I tried one of these before, but couldn't get it to fit. I think be removing the upper idler it will be perfect.


I'll post results.






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Old 07-29-2019, 03:26 PM   #36
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I was able to get the 952HD on, but I had to use a 2.75 smooth idler between the balancer and alternator to work. However the idler I had did not have flanges on it and the belt would move and jump off the idler.

I put the 3" idler back on and ran the belt with no idlers on the passenger side, in hopes of stretching the belt enough to all the lower idler to fit on. I only let it idle for 5 mins and sit over night. I'll see how it does tonight.
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Old 07-29-2019, 03:29 PM   #37
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I have reached out to Ted a JPE to see what combo they are running on their 416ci they dyno'd a few weeks ago with a 8 rib system.

They had a 427ci one as well but it was on 10 rib.
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:59 AM   #38
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So update...

I went back and ran it the traditional way. Used the smallest belt 952HD that I has to let stretch over night without idlers. Was able to get the belt on and ran it for a little time, drove around to put miles on the belt and re adjusted the bottom idler. Belt was super tight. Let the car sit for a few hours. Took it out at last night and made a pull from 2nd to 3rd. Snap, belt snapped straight across...

Guessing the belt was too tight
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:27 AM   #39
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Update.....
Put a k080956HD belt on last night and used the lower idler to adjust the belt as tight as the idler allows, right before hitting the t-stat housing.

Belt ran good with no issues after a few miles and 3 hard pulls, 2nd to 3rd, most of 3rd. reviewed the log and the belt is slipping pretty good. Going to try an RPM belt, however they are 5-7 days out.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:59 AM   #40
JANNETTYRACING

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4U2NV-SS View Post
Update.....
Put a k080956HD belt on last night and used the lower idler to adjust the belt as tight as the idler allows, right before hitting the t-stat housing.

Belt ran good with no issues after a few miles and 3 hard pulls, 2nd to 3rd, most of 3rd. reviewed the log and the belt is slipping pretty good. Going to try an RPM belt, however they are 5-7 days out.
Slipping or Slapping a bit of confusion here.

Do not use an RPM belt they are JUNK
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Old 08-02-2019, 12:42 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Slipping or Slapping a bit of confusion here.

Do not use an RPM belt they are JUNK
As of right now the belt gets close, but the belt is not slapping the other belt and knocking it off.

It is slipping, because its bouncing around at 10-11 lbs. It peaks at 12 lbs for a split second, but fall right off right after the initial hit. According to the log.

It was making a steady 11.5 lbs on the previous 3.25 pulley and stock balancer. So I was figuring it should make 13 lbs now with the 3.00 and 8% OD balancer.

Never had any issues with the RPM belts when I was a 6 rib.

What issues do you guys run into?
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:37 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Slipping or Slapping a bit of confusion here.

Do not use an RPM belt they are JUNK

Hey Ted,


Funny you should say that ... it seems to me that the HD stretches just as much as the standard Gates belts.



I'm waiting for the K080956RPM to arrive and I'll remove that top idler like you suggested to get it to fit.


What belt do you recommend?
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