Testing Repeatability - Validation and Competition

[greenrail]

I am always amazed how so many posters on here, feel that they are able to beat any documented time posted by the journalist community, regardless of ambient conditions.

Which in turn leads to the Camaro, Mustang, Challenger performance rants. Yeah, we are Camaro Fans. But, we need to understand the repeatability of the testing processes many of the car Magazines and top notch websites use. The key word being “repeatability.” It leads to a consistent testing regimen. The cars are tested in the same manner. Adjustments are made to equalize ambient conditions when necessary.

Everytime a Camaro/Mustang/Challenger, for whatever reasons outperforms the other make, it leads to accusations of favoritism. What a silly argument. Each Manufacturer, is in the business of making cars and trucks. It is part of the never-ending game to incrementally improve the vehicles over time.

Get over it folks, nothing in this business is static. To me when I see the Mustang performance improve, it means that there is someone in GM, working on bettering those numbers. I would guess that there is also someone over at Chrysler doing the same thing.

I applaud the journalist community, (which is extremely rare on my part) because they do a darn good job at using a consistent testing methodology. I am so tired of anecdotal claims by many who just happen to have access to a computer. It happens on all the fan boards.

Repeated and consistent testing process is a much stronger basis of comparison than,” by the way I did such and such.”

Bottom-line, to me, if the 2011 Mustang is improved over the prior year’s car, that is a good thing. If it is now equal to or slightly better in some performance categories than the current Camaro, Good, it will help push the improvement process along.

That’s just the very nature of the industry. There is not a darn thing wrong with that, because we as consumers benefit.

We all like to feel, that we have – more power, are faster, quicker, stronger, or whatever. That’s human nature. But please spare the argument that because they tested a 2010 XXXXXXXX versus a 2011 XXXXXXXX and that wasn’t fair. It is part of the evolution of these great automobiles. If this hadn’t been going on, we would still be driving Camaros with the performance of a 1979 305 Cubic Inch Small block. (or dare I say a 1972 Iron Duke). How awful would that be?

Likewise, regimented testing as part of GM's Validation process for various vehicle components is a similar situation. It helps them (with or wiithout fault) bring properly validated products to market.

Bottomline, I love the competition. I love the drive towards improvement. But, it has to be based on repeatable testing parameters. In my professional life, I deal with similar situations.

Just my 2 cents.

[TommyTSquared]

[greenrail]

One can take just so much blatheriing. Many of the claims made on here are with modifications, or extenuating conditions which skew the nmbers.

By profession, I deal with test standards in my industry. That is why I take this track in looking at the overall picture.

It's part of the competition game between the manufacturers.

[ViperTomcat]

2005 Mustang GT-300 HP
In 2006 Chrysler responds with Charger R/T (340 HP) & SRT8 (425 HP)
GM responds with Camaro Concept

2006 Charger R/T & SRT8
in late 2006 Ford responds with Shelby GT500 (500 HP)
GM creates Camaro concept and shows it at the Detroit Auto Show

2007 Camaro is in the spotlight!
Chrysler Responds with the Challenger concept & begins Challenger SRT8 production (Dec. 2007)
Ford enhances Mustang
GM begins developing the Pontiac G8 GT (362 HP)

2008 Challenger SRT8 and R/T released
Ford leaks news of new 5.0 engine for future model year
Camaro stats released and Pontiac G8 GT hits the streets to compete with Charger R/T and G8 GXP (415 HP) to take on Charger SRT8

in 2009 GM releases the Camaro V6 with 312(true HP) and SS (400 & 426 HP)
Chrysler releases Challenger R/T
Ford upgrades the GT500 to 540 HP
GM kills Pontiac (:()

In 2010 Ford releases the 2011 Mustang 5.0 (412 HP) and V6 (305 HP) and the GT500 loses 100 pounds and goes up to 550 HP
Chrysler announces the 392 Hemi for the 2011 SRT8 (480+ HP) and 300 HP for the Challenger SE.

GM announces Camaro convertible and begins testing of Supercharged (Z28?) Camaro and possible return of the G8 GT as the Caprice SS

2011- ????


See the game folks? each time a superior car is released you should be both pissed and THRILLED. Competition and one-upping the other increases the quality and performance of ALL three brands.

Its FANTASTIC!

[greenrail]

BINGO!

[greenrail]

Boy, this thread sank like a rock.

[Kycamaross]

You, Gentleman, are REAL car enthusiasts. You get it! I have been preaching what greenrail and vipertomcat stated on this thread to all the folks at my workplace and Chevy guys around me. I am absolutely elated that Ford stepped up the Mustang. Yes, it will be faster than my SS, but, I have complete confidence that Chevy and Chrysler will step up the game. This should continue until the government restrictions get so tight, that the fervor will die down again (sad day that will be). So to Greenrail and Vipertomcat, I applaud and salute you!!

[SSE 4 2SS]

I think the old sports adage that you improve only against better competition applies here...

Well stated and I for one am glad the competition is out there...

As for the thread dying, it's too deep and/or sacreligious to many...Fan boys (extremists?) certainly do not want to hear it... especially after ponying up close to if not over 40,000...

[greenrail]

Admittedly, I am a fan of the Camaro. If I wasn't, I would not have bought one. What really troubles me are the constant accusations, that the Manufacturers buy off the media. That is really not true.

Each year they look at what happens to various vehicles. Whenever they publish any kind of story pointing out improvements, the so-called "Fanboys" come out of the woodwork. Every darn time. That's why I don't buy into that line of thinking. It just doesn't wash.

I consider myself a Car enthusiast. I love top-notch performance regardless of brand or country of origin. I laugh at things like the Smart FoutTwo. Which is an interesting concept that was not executed real well.

What really excites me is the real probability, that somewhere, someday, we will see Performance Vehicles that get 40-50 mpg, and still perform at the levels to which we are accustomed.

Porsche is already headed down that road. Look at what they are doing on the Perfomance side with the new Hybrid car they are developing. It will trickle down to the rest of us eventually.

It always amazes me, that I can drive a 426 horsepower, hot rod, that is capable of getting 26-27 mpg on the highway. That was absurd thinking back in 1967. add to taht the overall reliability and safety enhancements, and one can surmise, we have come a long way.

I made he original posting here to try and level out thinking about what is reported in the Media. Some will get it, while others just won't.

I am excited about Camaros, Challengers, Mustangs, Chargers, BMW's, Mercedes, Porsches, Corvettes, Audi's, and what ever high performance vehicle comes to market.

Heck, I even get excited about the rapidly improving Daily Driver segment. The new Taurus is a very nice vehicle. Likewise the new Buick Lacrosse and Regal. These are interesting times.

God forbid we go back to 1975, when we literally choked the automobile down to an impotent piece of transportation hardware. Think about it... Anyone remember the 1982 Camaro Coupe with the 2.5 litre "Iron Duke."

I personally hope we never see those kinds of junk on the road again.

To the OEM's--- Keep 'em coming!

[Michelle42780]

Bravo!

[ss ZHO]

Good post and good points.

[Sax1031]

without competition the cars would be a lot worse than they are today.

[greenrail]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

without competition the cars would be a lot worse than they are today.

How many of us long for the days of the late '70's when a 350 CU IN Z28 had a grand total of 175 Horsepower, and had terrible fuel economy?

Certainly not me.

That's why I applaud the technology, safety and performance advances that have taken place during the past 20 or so years.