spark plug NGK BR7ef or TR7ix, which is the best?

[PFL]

I am in doubt between these 2 plugs. I'm going with Procharger between 18psi and 20psi. every plug has its benefits. I'll be using 032 gap. E85 fuel. I accept suggestions

[BiggFoot]

Hmmm sounds a lot like my set-up. My shop switched to NGK 4554 plugs because of my Brodix heads. Turns out these plugs have one additional set of threads on it which is needed on the Brodix head.

Whatever you decide on, with that psi and power range you should be looking at an 8 heat range plug, not 7.

You DID ask for opinions

[Rob10CamaroSS]

Thats a nice amount of boost and boy oh boy it's going to be an ANIMAL

I dont want to start a Plug War and I cant disagree with BiggFoot and his BEAST but I do have a lot of experience (good & bad) with Boost and Spark Plugs so I can give you my personal experience. I've tried BR7's at least 4 or 5 times and I frigging hate them; they idle like sh!t, have low RPM misses, and they made my 2010 Camaro run like crap, but yes they work great at WOT. Because it's a non projected tip spark plug it's also very forgiving for Boost (and N20) so I do get why so many tuners and people use them.

To me nothing is smoother than Denso Iridium but the price is high and they are very fragile to high boost and N20 so I stopped using them. What I have found is if the tune is right, you have the right flowing fuel system & A/F, you should be able to adjust for higher boost with a smaller gap (which of course is also a trade off). I ran TR6's on 25lbs of boost on a Twin Screw Supercharger on a 9 second daily driver 5000lb pickup truck, and had the same TR6's in there for 3 years.

My Camaro has a Procharger D1 at @ 9lbs of boost and it had BR7's whan I bought it. I swear to you without me even looking I immediately knew it had BR7's just from the bad idle and low rpm misses. I immediately put TR6's in at 032 and it was like a different vehicle, I even called the original owner and told him you need to come by and drive it now, it's a totally different car. This is now the 2nd year with the same plugs and I drive it Very Hard every time I drive it.

I'm not saying put 6's in by no means, I'm just giving you my experiences with many supercharged vehicles and spark plugs. I would say you may have to try a couple of different plugs and gaps to find what works best FOR YOU, but just because you add more boost the answer is not always to go colder.

[PFL]

Thanks biggfoot congratulations for the car.
Rob10camaross thanks for the explanation. wanted to hit the correct plug. I'm going to limit boost to a Th400 transmission. I have a long way to go. I'm using MSD cables, some say go to granatelli. Anyone else could tell which plug you are using for this boost level?

[BiggFoot]

Gents, you can take anything I say, chew up the meat, and spit out the bones cause I don't know that much about tweaking cars, only about what has been done to mine (by the shop, not me).

All I know is a number of years ago there was a gent here that blew the top off a couple of his pistons. He was pushing about 13 psi on a Maggie plus NOS and whether or not too hot of a plug was the issue, at least that is what he thought. I discussed with my shop on my last jump with the Maggie to 13 psi boost and E85 at almost 800 hp, we switched from a 7 to 8 heat range plug and I am still running the 8 now with the F-1X at about 16 psi.

[fleebag]

Originally Posted by Rob10CamaroSS

Thats a nice amount of boost and boy oh boy it's going to be an ANIMAL

I dont want to start a Plug War and I cant disagree with BiggFoot and his BEAST but I do have a lot of experience (good & bad) with Boost and Spark Plugs so I can give you my personal experience. I've tried BR7's at least 4 or 5 times and I frigging hate them; they idle like sh!t, have low RPM misses, and they made my 2010 Camaro run like crap, but yes they work great at WOT. Because it's a non projected tip spark plug it's also very forgiving for Boost (and N20) so I do get why so many tuners and people use them.

To me nothing is smoother than Denso Iridium but the price is high and they are very fragile to high boost and N20 so I stopped using them. What I have found is if the tune is right, you have the right flowing fuel system & A/F, you should be able to adjust for higher boost with a smaller gap (which of course is also a trade off). I ran TR6's on 25lbs of boost on a Twin Screw Supercharger on a 9 second daily driver 5000lb pickup truck, and had the same TR6's in there for 3 years.

My Camaro has a Procharger D1 at @ 9lbs of boost and it had BR7's whan I bought it. I swear to you without me even looking I immediately knew it had BR7's just from the bad idle and low rpm misses. I immediately put TR6's in at 032 and it was like a different vehicle, I even called the original owner and told him you need to come by and drive it now, it's a totally different car. This is now the 2nd year with the same plugs and I drive it Very Hard every time I drive it.

I'm not saying put 6's in by no means, I'm just giving you my experiences with many supercharged vehicles and spark plugs. I would say you may have to try a couple of different plugs and gaps to find what works best FOR YOU, but just because you add more boost the answer is not always to go colder.

Omg I feel exactly the same on the BR7's, I swap around between the TR7 and the BR's. Idle is definitely a little worse with the BR.
IMHO the simple copper tip is a hair colder on the BR vs the TR. yea they are the same heat range but that's what I get. Mine is tuned at 14lbs and I had the TR in at the time. But I currently have the BR's in.

Like mentioned prior, with your boost I would go to 8's.

[Rob10CamaroSS]

Originally Posted by BiggFoot

...
All I know is a number of years ago there was a gent here that blew the top off a couple of his pistons. He was pushing about 13 psi on a Maggie plus NOS and whether or not too hot of a plug was the issue, at least that is what he thought. I discussed with my shop on my last jump with the Maggie to 13 psi boost and E85 at almost 800 hp, we switched from a 7 to 8 heat range plug and I am still running the 8 now with the F-1X at about 16 psi.

As I originally said Bigg I cant disagree with you
AMOF I once cooked a $15K BRAND NEW built motor on the 1320 on it's first pass on that motor. And that was after the builder/tuner had the truck for a full month off and on the Dyno and street tweaking the tune.
In that case the builder had BR7's in it and we were running about 18/19 lbs of boost and 75 HP of N20.



One of the things I've learned over the years is different tuners will use different brands, different gaps, and different heat ranges on the identical set up, it seems to be tuner preference more than logic sometimes, LOL (or the tuner finds a combo that works and sticks with it).

Funny part is a few years later I threw a Procharger on a Mustang GT I had and used the same guy to give me a start up tune. AS he was strolling through the computer looking at my old tunes I saw one on the motor that blew up where the A/F was under 12 the whole run and then had a massive spike to over 15 A/F in the upper RPM's. I knew then the reason I blew up was because of his chi!tty tuning ability's and I never used him again. Live & Learn...

Bottom line is if you run good with 6's, 7's, or 8's, and the plugs read well then stick with it. In your case and massive power and boost (OK I'M JEALOUS) I would be running something colder then 6's and not BR7's so I would agree with your choice (especially at the tuners suggestion)

[fif_gen_powa]

Made 905whp on 19psi BR7EF (not br7es by the way)
Drive fine to me drive the car on the street all the time.

Tried TR7IX a while back and didn't notice any difference at all from the BR7EF to justify a $10 plug vs a $2 plug

[Bildo]

I run the TR7IX on mine gapped at .026 @ 15lbs around 800rwhp with the filter on a F1-A
and E-85 mostly street driven, no issues. I did run a larger gap but closed it down when I thought I was getting spark blow out, had a different issue, have had no reason to open the gap back up.

[eLeSthree]

I found this thread during a search for "br7ef".

In preparation for another power bump, I decided to swap out my TR6's to the BR7EFs. Since most people run a 7 range plug around this power range, I thought it would be a good idea.

My TR6s were gapped at 32, so I gapped the Br7s the same. I hate them.

My idle sucks, the car shakes a bit, feels like its running rough. The only time it feels good is under WOT. I've spent alot of time tuning out the negative effects of my 110 cam, and all that work seems to be out the window.

While transitioning from reverse to first, or parking lot speeds, or just cruising to a stop, the rpms fall again and it almost stalls. Like its never been tuned...

I dont want to use an iridium/platinum (thin) tipped plug, so I'm definitely sticking with copper, but I cant run the br7efs. Any other options in 7 heat range?

I had no issues with the TR6's, so I guess im going back. So much smoother.

[stevieturbo]

That makes no sense. There should be zero difference whatsoever. Something has went wrong during the change.

If plug access is easy, then there arent really any downsides to copper plugs, just change them more often.

If plug access is not easy, then precious metal plugs make more sense as they will last a lot longer before you need to look at them

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by stevieturbo

That makes no sense. There should be zero difference whatsoever. Something has went wrong during the change.

If plug access is easy, then there arent really any downsides to copper plugs, just change them more often.

If plug access is not easy, then precious metal plugs make more sense as they will last a lot longer before you need to look at them

The big difference between the plugs is the tr6 has a projected tip. And br7 a non projected tip.

I think the point of Robs post (and mine) is that there IS a difference. We both find drive-ability suffers with the br7. I'm going to try opeing up the gap, since the location of the spark has moved inside the cylinder by about 1/8inch, maybe a bigger gap will help.

But ill probably be going back to TR6. Unless there is another 7 or 8 heat range copper plug anyone can suggest???

[stevieturbo]

Originally Posted by eLeSthree

The big difference between the plugs is the tr6 has a projected tip. And br7 a non projected tip.

I think the point of Robs post (and mine) is that there IS a difference. We both find drive-ability suffers with the br7. I'm going to try opeing up the gap, since the location of the spark has moved inside the cylinder by about 1/8inch, maybe a bigger gap will help.

But ill probably be going back to TR6. Unless there is another 7 or 8 heat range copper plug anyone can suggest???

Your problem is NOT the plugs.

I've used many different plugs in mine over the years, and never has any of the plugs I've used posed the symptoms you're describing. Not the plugs, nor varying gaps.

As for plugs, if you dont limit yourself to tapered seat, there are plenty of options. Just depends exactly what you want. certainly in any cathedral heads I've used, whether taper or gasket...the plug ends up in the same place. And taper seat plugs are a rarity in the UK, so I wouldnt even consider using them, nor would I want to anyway.

Do you want recessed or normal projected nose ?

Normal projected in gasket type would be BCPR7ES, certainly readily available here in the UK, and what is in my LS at present.
Or if you wanted iridiums, NGK's BKR7EIX is very common. Denso do comparable iridiums too, IK or IQ22.

Denso's, Q22PRU would be a cross for the BCPR7ES, again cheap copper. Denso make good stuff.

Although it is not readily available in the US, BCR8ES is plentiful in the UK/Europe and is a cheap copper recessed nose plug.
ALthough by time you bought then and shipped back to the US....probably more than you'd want to spend and you may not want the recessed plug anyway.