A few quick thoughts on the March 16th startup to calm people down...

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD

Scott.... I can see you have a busy schedule right now, and a lot of traffic on the web site to contend with as well. I just logged on after being away for a week and I'm having trouble getting to the ground truth with all the exchanges going back and forth. When you manage to pop back on, if you could advise me on when you feel orders for 2SS/RS configurations, ordered the 1st day of ordering might be ready for pickup at my local dealer.
My story... had an Fbody most the way through HS (was kind of known for my car that started stock and upon graduation was something quite different), my 25 year class reunion is in May of this year. What are the chances NOW with the new information available to you of me showing up to my reunion in my new Camaro?

There is no way for Scott to know for sure about each and every one of our individual orders since they are not being built by who ordered first per se... He would probably tell you there is a good chance it will make it by then however even that would have to be a guess that is based on the size of the dealership you ordered from as that would be a big factor as to how many Camaro's they will recieve...etc..

[Supermans]

Are those the real headlights???

[CamaroScotty]

Originally Posted by King Mouse

Scott,

I did not intend to insult you. Many dealers STILL do not have color chips yet. You can get one on eBay though. You have to admit that GM has given dealers very little information if none at all. If not for the insider information received on these forums, most of us would know little or nothing about this car. A dealer should not have to find information this way. A consumer should not have to see the interior of a vehicle he has ordered via spyshots.

You should know that I like my dealer very much and have bought many cars from them. I also agree with you that this car is beautifl and outstanding.

We are lucky to have enthusiasts involved here but this is not the way to run a successful campaign.

No insult taken... I'm just clarifying that the issue is not GM's, it's the dealership. I feel the pain...I do! Do you know how many cars I've sold for other dealers? How many questions I've answered for people buying from a local dealer, because I feel the pride in the car? Those dealers aren't sending me a check, and I don't expect anyone with questions to reward me - it's a favor to everyone, because I want you to make an informed decision. If you are ultimately happy with the dealership you're working with, GREAT! That's how it should be! If not, why would you give them your time and money?

They need to take pride in this car, the launch, and everything it represents. AND SHARE THE CAMARO LOVE!

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by fixxer56

Fbodfather,
My humble advice to you is to shut your computer off for a few days, enjoy life and know that you are giving us one hell of an automobile.

Yeah, this forum is going to make your head explode.. Take a two day break and come back..

I know what will make everyone here a lot happier and get the topic away from this.. If only somehow you are able to sneak in a Cyber Grey SS Camaro shot I bet this forum goes 100% positive...

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by CamaroScotty

No insult taken... I'm just clarifying that the issue is not GM's, it's the dealership. I feel the pain...I do! Do you know how many cars I've sold for other dealers? How many questions I've answered for people buying from a local dealer, because I feel the pride in the car? Those dealers aren't sending me a check, and I don't expect anyone with questions to reward me - it's a favor to everyone, because I want you to make an informed decision. If you are ultimately happy with the dealership you're working with, GREAT! That's how it should be! If not, why would you give them your time and money?

They need to take pride in this car, the launch, and everything it represents. AND SHARE THE CAMARO LOVE!

Scotty,

GM should open up a school for salesman and put you in charge of it.. Your school would be mandatory before anyone attempts to sell any Camaro or GM vehicle...

[131 SS]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

thank you, jarvis for your kind words.......
You can either believe me

I believe you and appreciate the insight your under no obligation to provide to us. Good things come to those who wait and if we knew all of the answers ahead of time what would we talk about?


Keep the faith, Mike

[King Mouse]

Here ya go. None of my local dealers have them yet. Even the one I have ordered my car from.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2010-...sQ5fLiterature

[PieNsky]

Originally Posted by Number 3

SOME of you guys kill me. GM should go bankrupt so they can go around franchise laws so that YOU can get your car????? How about the guy at that other dealer that has his heart set on the car going to that dealer????? Holy cow!!!!!!

I would ask that you all go look at the history of the new 370Z. When did you know it was coming? Who at Nissan gave you any dates? My recollection was it showed up in the spy photos about 6 months ago WOTH camo AND NO COMMENTS from ZBODFATHER. Oh yeah, that's right. There is no insider called ZBODFATHER. And now the most recent issues of the car mags have full reviews, it will be at the NAIAS and oh yes you can go buy one now. No build up, no inclusion of the enthusiasts. I worked at Nissan for a bit. They and the other Japanese OEMs would never do what you guys have been allowed to see and hear about for the past few years of Camaro development.

Your enthusiasm and passion are your own worst enemy here. GM has included you in many key steps of Camaro development, maybe more than any car in history. And when a date is missed by a few weeks SOME of you guys go off on rants against GM, it's dealers and leadership.

Puh leeeeze.

Sure, I MIGHT BE CHANGING THE SUBJECT but what really pisses me off to no end is the price gouging dealers.
I called up Coyle Chevrolet in Indiana and was told to write a check for a grand and I will be buying a Camaro for MSRP. I get there and am told to write a check for 7 Grand and when the Camaro comes in, I'll buy it for MSRP and they will just keep the 7 Grand deposit.
I called up Champion Chevrolet in LaGrange , KY and they were only go to **** me for 5 Grand.
I stopped in at Bachman Chevrolet and the also wanted a nonrefundable deposit but only for a 1 Grand but the price will be whatever the Louisville market will be bearing when it comes in....SURPRISE!!! I rather not be surprised by something as expensive as a new car price.
I gave my C.C. # over the phone to a central Indiana car dealer whose internet salesman told me I was 25 of 26 back on 11-4 only to find out that they had 4 allocations.
I finally found a dealer that is going to sell me at MSRP an LS.

[camarorick]

Originally Posted by VICTORY RED 1SS

Uh, hate to be the one to tell ya but I got an workbench confirmation number in November when I ordered just like the US guys....

Originally Posted by OUR72GTO

Canada uses GM AutoBook
Data Version 133.3
I have one in my hands dated 10/21/2008
at 12:09:00 pm
Customer file : #####

it is 5 pages long

After I made changes based on the info on this site I have
another updated file with 13 pages from Nov 27th.
That file is UPDATED on Version 134.3.

I believe the dealer's GM when he tells me NO orders in Canada have been entered into GM.

Canada did not have the same "PRE ORDER" dates as the US and the pricing came out a month AFTER the USA.

Our distribution method is totally different as well.

I should know as I have been down to Annacis Island many times to see my factory orders unloaded from trains and placed on trucks.

If some one gave you a number .... congrats ...your in the same lottery as the rest of us.

Bottom line is the guy in T/O will get his car before you or me.

My dealer initially went through Autobook, but I believe this is just a system to create the "rough" quote. When we finally received the Canadian pricing, he entered my order through workbench. I have my order number, and my current event is 1100 (preliminary order accepted ).

[fastball]

Originally Posted by PieNsky

Sure, I MIGHT BE CHANGING THE SUBJECT but what really pisses me off to no end is the price gouging dealers.
I called up Coyle Chevrolet in Indiana and was told to write a check for a grand and I will be buying a Camaro for MSRP. I get there and am told to write a check for 7 Grand and when the Camaro comes in, I'll buy it for MSRP and they will just keep the 7 Grand deposit.
I called up Champion Chevrolet in LaGrange , KY and they were only go to **** me for 5 Grand.
I stopped in at Bachman Chevrolet and the also wanted a nonrefundable deposit but only for a 1 Grand but the price will be whatever the Louisville market will be bearing when it comes in....SURPRISE!!! I rather not be surprised by something as expensive as a new car price.
I gave my C.C. # over the phone to a central Indiana car dealer whose internet salesman told me I was 25 of 26 back on 11-4 only to find out that they had 4 allocations.
I finally found a dealer that is going to sell me at MSRP an LS.

Your situation is the reason I am exploring what would be involved in getting ground work together for fighting unfair franchise laws. In fact, here is my vision:

The way it SHOULD work is you go into any Chevy (or GM "store" as I would prefer them to be called), and order your Camaro exactly the way you want it. You pay the same exact price as every other single American who orders their Camaro in the same color, options, and engine. Or, what would really be revolutionary is being able to order the car online. And have a direct contact to a live person at GM if you have any problems or concerns with your ordering process. This same person would have the power to investigate issues and resolve any problems you might have encountered in the process of ordering your car. When your car is built, it is shipped to your local Chevy or GM store (of which there would only be maybe 10 in every major metropolitan area, one or two for every GM division).

At this Chevy store, there is a parking lot of cars and trucks you can buy right there, but not an entire 5 acres of Cobalts and Silverados lined up like Soviet militants (like I see when I walk on to most Chevy dealer lots). There would be a good selection of all the vehicles ready for your purchase and test drive, but not overkill. The streamlining of production has been remedied by eliminating redundant production processes, redesigning all GM assembly lines to be the most efficient in the world (which would unfortunately eliminate many jobs due to the vast robotics invovled in producing the cars) crosstraining all employees how to multi-task on the job, and employing a notion that if something has to get done just do it (instead of the "it's not my job" attitude that still seems to permiate some production facilities)

All the employees would be required to wear sanctioned business casual attire, most likely a blue or white button down or polo style shirt with the insignia of the division they represent or the GM blue square on it. Kakhi pants, skirts, and matching shoes are a must. Everyone must be clean cut, no tatoos showing, and present a professional attitude without the "salesman" edge (think Apple Stores).

The stores themselves.....

Whether you're buying a Cadillac XLR or Chevy Aveo, they must all be modern, sophisticated, and still be warm and inviting. Clean and bright. Computer - er, Mac - kisosks available to everyone for looking at the options and colors of every car they want would replace brochures stacked up on rack upon rack. There will not be a single board anywhere in the room showing, to the public, the list of salespeople and how many cars they've sold. Those days are gone now that all of the "product specialists" are paid a salary or hourly stipen. And when I say specialists I mean that.

The employees.......

To work at a Chevy store, you must first pass a simple test about cars in general. Not model or make specific, just a general test gauging your knowledge about cars. What's the difference between AWD and 4WD? What is traction control and how does it work? What is the difference between OHC, DOHC, and OHV?..... These are issues I continue to see salesmen today have absolutely no clue about and it drives me up a wall. You sell cars - get to know a little about them!!!

If potential hires do not pass this test, they aren't eligable to sell cars yet. Perhaps you could make them a receptionist or lackey untill they learn.

When they do, they should be required to keep up to date on ALL the latest info about every car they represent. Once a month training including driving the cars and having an engineer go through everything with them technically. Cars like the Camaro should have one and ONE person only who is eligable to sell them - they know as much about the car as Scott Settlemeyer or more and understand the passion of a Camaro enthusiast. They are older, probably owned a couple Camaros in their lifetime, and know about carburators. I've laughed so hard at a few salesmen when I asked them about Camaros I almost had to change my underwear.

All of these processes would be defined in an employee handbook binder titled "Standard Operating Procedure", which is defined, processed, and enforced by General Motors from the top in Detroit, all the way down to every GM store in America. In the SOP binder would be guidlines for employee performance evaluations and actions plans for employees who need guidance. All the stores would operate, process, and employ the exact same way. Whether it's in Cleveland, Ohio or San Diego, California, or New York City. In fact, it would be almost efortless for any employee from one to transfer to another without having to learn a single new thing on the job.

A store manager would have absolutely no say in what a car can sell for. Their main responsabilities would be to make sure all of the specialists are properly trained on product, presenting the products accurately and positively, and most importantly providing exceptional customer service. Did I mention all the prices are set by GM and thus have only the profit required by GM built in to them and no margin for dealers (since they're extinct anyway)??

The bottom line is, anyone who sells a GM vehicle would work for GM, not Dan The Man's Auto Emporium.

Hmmmm, I know I'll think of other things to add to this, but that's about it for now.

[CoolestCamaro873]

Originally Posted by super60

So what the hell is it with some of you guys always comparing us with MONKEYS !!! I live and breath GM and i'm DAMM PROUD to be a part of the Camaro team. Man go yell at the moon before you start taking shots at the people who are working 150% to get this car out.

From an Oshawa worker.

I wasn't talking about you people at the factory, I'mtalking more about the GM team who designed the Camaro, and made the floor plans for it. Didn't mean to offend you, I'm sure you guys do great when cars are in production, but the car isn't in production so I'm not blaming you guys!

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by Caliman93230

I'm guessing that the camaro delay has something to do with ABL, this news article explains the possibility.

The all new Chevrolet Camaro isn't the car that will make General Motors, but it certainly could become the one to break the automaker if problems with a major parts supplier manages to delay its February 17, 2009 introduction. Thanks to the August 2008 bankruptcy filing of Cadence Innovation, GM may not have a supplier available to make door panels and other key components for Chevy's iconic pony car. As of this writing the supply company is liquidating its assets while still possessing the equipment that GM loaned the company to build the needed parts.

GM is suing Cadence in a bid to acquire Camaro specific tooling and parts from Cadence by January 12th to give to a new supplier who would provide finished parts to keep the Camaro on schedule. Even a one day delay could cost the automaker millions of dollars as the company's Oshawa, Ontario assembly plant would be shut down until all Camaro components are in place.

Dude, learn how to use the search feature up there before posting stuff like this.

[gtjacket]

How many times has this Cadence stuff been posted? GM also stated that their lawsuit with Cadence is not the reason for the delay. Just do a search for Cadence and then read comments posted about the IDL and then you will gain a bit of understanding.

[gss9909]

Originally Posted by fastball

Your situation is the reason I am exploring what would be involved in getting ground work together for fighting unfair franchise laws. In fact, here is my vision:

The way it SHOULD work is you go into any Chevy (or GM "store" as I would prefer them to be called), and order your Camaro exactly the way you want it. You pay the same exact price as every other single American who orders their Camaro in the same color, options, and engine. Or, what would really be revolutionary is being able to order the car online. And have a direct contact to a live person at GM if you have any problems or concerns with your ordering process. This same person would have the power to investigate issues and resolve any problems you might have encountered in the process of ordering your car. When your car is built, it is shipped to your local Chevy or GM store (of which there would only be maybe 10 in every major metropolitan area, one or two for every GM division).

At this Chevy store, there is a parking lot of cars and trucks you can buy right there, but not an entire 5 acres of Cobalts and Silverados lined up like Soviet militants (like I see when I walk on to most Chevy dealer lots). There would be a good selection of all the vehicles ready for your purchase and test drive, but not overkill. The streamlining of production has been remedied by eliminating redundant production processes, redesigning all GM assembly lines to be the most efficient in the world (which would unfortunately eliminate many jobs due to the vast robotics invovled in producing the cars) crosstraining all employees how to multi-task on the job, and employing a notion that if something has to get done just do it (instead of the "it's not my job" attitude that still seems to permiate some production facilities)

All the employees would be required to wear sanctioned business casual attire, most likely a blue or white button down or polo style shirt with the insignia of the division they represent or the GM blue square on it. Kakhi pants, skirts, and matching shoes are a must. Everyone must be clean cut, no tatoos showing, and present a professional attitude without the "salesman" edge (think Apple Stores).

The stores themselves.....

Whether you're buying a Cadillac XLR or Chevy Aveo, they must all be modern, sophisticated, and still be warm and inviting. Clean and bright. Computer - er, Mac - kisosks available to everyone for looking at the options and colors of every car they want would replace brochures stacked up on rack upon rack. There will not be a single board anywhere in the room showing, to the public, the list of salespeople and how many cars they've sold. Those days are gone now that all of the "product specialists" are paid a salary or hourly stipen. And when I say specialists I mean that.

The employees.......

To work at a Chevy store, you must first pass a simple test about cars in general. Not model or make specific, just a general test gauging your knowledge about cars. What's the difference between AWD and 4WD? What is traction control and how does it work? What is the difference between OHC, DOHC, and OHV?..... These are issues I continue to see salesmen today have absolutely no clue about and it drives me up a wall. You sell cars - get to know a little about them!!!

If potential hires do not pass this test, they aren't eligable to sell cars yet. Perhaps you could make them a receptionist or lackey untill they learn.

When they do, they should be required to keep up to date on ALL the latest info about every car they represent. Once a month training including driving the cars and having an engineer go through everything with them technically. Cars like the Camaro should have one and ONE person only who is eligable to sell them - they know as much about the car as Scott Settlemeyer or more and understand the passion of a Camaro enthusiast. They are older, probably owned a couple Camaros in their lifetime, and know about carburators. I've laughed so hard at a few salesmen when I asked them about Camaros I almost had to change my underwear.

All of these processes would be defined in an employee handbook binder titled "Standard Operating Procedure", which is defined, processed, and enforced by General Motors from the top in Detroit, all the way down to every GM store in America. In the SOP binder would be guidlines for employee performance evaluations and actions plans for employees who need guidance. All the stores would operate, process, and employ the exact same way. Whether it's in Cleveland, Ohio or San Diego, California, or New York City. In fact, it would be almost efortless for any employee from one to transfer to another without having to learn a single new thing on the job.

A store manager would have absolutely no say in what a car can sell for. Their main responsabilities would be to make sure all of the specialists are properly trained on product, presenting the products accurately and positively, and most importantly providing exceptional customer service. Did I mention all the prices are set by GM and thus have only the profit required by GM built in to them and no margin for dealers (since they're extinct anyway)??

The bottom line is, anyone who sells a GM vehicle would work for GM, not Dan The Man's Auto Emporium.

Hmmmm, I know I'll think of other things to add to this, but that's about it for now.

And how do you suppose you pay the employees? or get financing for you car? that would also mean that you would pay whatever gm sets the MSRP at no discounts no rebates.