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Old 09-14-2021, 02:10 PM   #1
RupertPupkin

 
Drives: 2014 Camaro SS 1Le
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Best 408 + TT build (another build thread pt.2)

As you all know my SBE detonated into a million pieces. I’ve come to the realization that piecing this together with what I have won’t satisfy my habit. Lol. So I’m going to build from the bottom up.

Engine:
TMS 408 iron
M311 heads
CR 10.5 (might be lower)
TMS Cam 230/235/116+5
Stock manifolds or turbo manifolds (TBD)
Turbo- TBD

Fuel:
Fic1650
DSX Flex Fuel Senson
AGP Triple

Trans:
McLeod RXT
Stock 1Le 3.91 gears

Which AGP TT setup would work great for the 1000-1100 whp mark without any lag? What would be the limiting factor from the build that will hinder the power mark?


Keep an eye out for my ECS 1500 and aux pump in the FS section.
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Last edited by RupertPupkin; 09-19-2021 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 09-14-2021, 02:52 PM   #2
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Rupert, give Kevin a call at AGP he should be able to lead you in the right direction. I have a set of twin 57/57's on my stock (except for cam) LS3. I can't remember for sure but i believe he stated I could use those on a 416 build but they would cash out around 1000 rwhp. Might want to step it up a size or two and depending on your intentions ask Kevin about turbine size vs compressor size. Some go bigger on one side than the other and some run the same size on both sides. Unfortunately I am not smart enough to know the advantage of one over the other. Good luck.

My 57's at 8 psi are making 650/619 with a stage 2 BTR bump stick. I have heard that the bore to stroke ratio on a 408 is an awesome combo for FI.
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:50 PM   #3
RupertPupkin

 
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That’s what i did. Lol

He mentioned the 62/62 would work great with the 408, and do a smaller cam 230/235 combo to have the power kick on in the lower rpm band.

He also mentioned doing their mph switch. Researching that now and researching boost by gear. Based on what I read, boost by gear won’t work with a manual unless I drop some money.
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Old 09-15-2021, 01:15 PM   #4
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6262's at a minimum... I'd go even bigger.
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Old 09-15-2021, 01:49 PM   #5
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6262's at a minimum... I'd go even bigger.
I’m in talks with the shop and they suggested doing a comp 68/71. Seems like they’ve done multiple builds with this turbo, and pushing 1300whp+.
https://www.compturbotechnology.com/3993s

I’m leaving with something that’s for sure. Just want the power to climb up gradually, and not shoot up when the boost kicks in.
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Old 09-15-2021, 05:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by RupertPupkin View Post
Iím in talks with the shop and they suggested doing a comp 68/71. Seems like theyíve done multiple builds with this turbo, and pushing 1300whp+.
https://www.compturbotechnology.com/3993s

Iím leaving with something thatís for sure. Just want the power to climb up gradually, and not shoot up when the boost kicks in.
Much better...

Talk with AGP and see if they have any concerns about those turbos.
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:21 PM   #7
RupertPupkin

 
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From AGPs site their comparable turbo would be 65/65 journals Not a bad price still since it’s 700-800$ more.

Mixed reviews with the oil less set up. More from the zerk fitting coming loose, and the fact grease needs to be injected every 3000miles or so, which I wouldn’t mind. Seems like Huron Speed TTs run these turbos as an option.

Decisions decisions.
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:28 PM   #8
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Send BlakeB a PM for his recommendation on turbos? I think he’s had a few different ones.
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Old 09-15-2021, 10:57 PM   #9
RupertPupkin

 
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I think there was another Blake on here that had multiple setups.

Side note: With my 3.91 gears, any issues with drivability? I read an old thread where another forum member on here went to 3.27 from his 3.91 with the 62/65 (stock cubes tho)

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570698
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Old 09-16-2021, 12:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RupertPupkin View Post
I think there was another Blake on here that had multiple setups.

Side note: With my 3.91 gears, any issues with drivability? I read an old thread where another forum member on here went to 3.27 from his 3.91 with the 62/65 (stock cubes tho)

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570698
I had a 377 with AGP 61/61. Super peaky but I think the cam had the most to do with it.

Then a 427 with EFR7670s and then put on a set of 65/65s. The EFR7670s are actually 57/58s if I recall (Borg Warner sizes their turbos differently as compared to say Precision). They choked the engine but it always felt in boost very much like a factory turbo car. I made just over 1000whp with them but I forget what max boost was. With the 65/65s, I made over 1200whp and was having boost control issues. It would peak and then boost would slip down because I didn't have the boost controller setup properly. It made 1006whp at 13.6lbs which was the lowest boost setting. I seem to recall it would hit 27 lbs and then fall back to 21 lbs and made a little over 1200whp. After I properly adjusted the boost controller, I think minimum boost was around 15lbs. I never took it back to a dyno after that and sold it.

I would get rid of the 3.91s. Turbos like a load on them and higher numeric gears don't provide as much load as lower numeric gears. What rearend do you have? I had 3.25s in a GFORCE 9" and I think they were just about perfect for a street car.

If your shop is wanting to use their recommendations and they have experience with them, go for it! I do suggest talking to Kevin at AGP. He is a straight shooter even if it costs him a sale. He also won't sell you something just because you want it and he doesn't think it is good for you.

If going AGP, I agree with 62/62s or 62/65s. The great thing about the AGP kit is when you need to go bigger, you just swap turbos. No need to change anything else.

Last edited by blake-b; 09-16-2021 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 09-16-2021, 07:25 AM   #11
RupertPupkin

 
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Originally Posted by blake-b View Post
I had a 377 with AGP 61/61. Super peaky but I think the cam had the most to do with it.

Then a 427 with EFR7670s and then put on a set of 65/65s. The EFR7670s are actually 57/58s if I recall (Borg Warner sizes their turbos differently as compared to say Precision). They choked the engine but it always felt in boost very much like a factory turbo car. I made just over 1000whp with them but I forget what max boost was. With the 65/65s, I made over 1200whp and was having boost control issues. It would peak and then boost would slip down because I didn't have the boost controller setup properly. It made 1006whp at 13.6lbs which was the lowest boost setting. I seem to recall it would hit 27 lbs and then fall back to 21 lbs and made a little over 1200whp. After I properly adjusted the boost controller, I think minimum boost was around 15lbs. I never took it back to a dyno after that and sold it.

I would get rid of the 3.91s. Turbos like a load on them and higher numeric gears don't provide as much load as lower numeric gears. What rearend do you have? I had 3.25s in a GFORCE 9" and I think they were just about perfect for a street car.

If your shop is wanting to use their recommendations and they have experience with them, go for it! I do suggest talking to Kevin at AGP. He is a straight shooter even if it costs him a sale. He also won't sell you something just because you want it and he doesn't think it is good for you.

If going AGP, I agree with 62/62s or 62/65s. The great thing about the AGP kit is when you need to go bigger, you just swap turbos. No need to change anything else.

I have 14 1le, so 3.91. I like the taller gears. :/ Not looking to swap that out either. What options are there to have a happy median?

Agreed, Kevinís been great throughout the process. Even got an email at midnight. Granted thereís a time zone difference, but still.

Guys at the shop ran the comp turbos on 7/8 builds that they did. Maxed out at 1500+, but Iím not about that life. Iíd be happy @ 1001whp w/ a good set of twins.
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Old 09-16-2021, 09:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RupertPupkin View Post
From AGPs site their comparable turbo would be 65/65 journals Not a bad price still since itís 700-800$ more.

Mixed reviews with the oil less set up. More from the zerk fitting coming loose, and the fact grease needs to be injected every 3000miles or so, which I wouldnít mind. Seems like Huron Speed TTs run these turbos as an option.

Decisions decisions.
I run a Comp Turbo Oilless 2.0 unit and really like it. No hassles with restrictor fittings. Grease is expensive, but last forever at the rate I'm using it. Very little drag with the ceramic bearings. If you spin the impeller when it's not running, it just seems to keep spinning forever. Car runs super cool even when I beat on it in the heat.

Full disclosure, I do have it up for sale while I have the engine out. I think I can pick up a fair amount of power higher in the RPM range with a bigger turbine, but if it does not sell. I'll put it back. Even if I had twins, I would run the oilless to avoid the need for a scavenge pump.
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Old 09-16-2021, 12:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RupertPupkin View Post
Researching that now and researching boost by gear. Based on what I read, boost by gear wonít work with a manual unless I drop some money.
The Cortex EBC boost-by-gear has been working pretty well for me (it uses math to calculate what gear you're in). It's a pretty good overall EBC with all the features. I don't have it set up all the way but I've been able to manipulate duty-cycle through the RPMs to get a pretty level boost setting (gotta add DC while RPMs climb).


Quote:
Originally Posted by blake-b View Post
I would get rid of the 3.91s. Turbos like a load on them and higher numeric gears don't provide as much load as lower numeric gears.
I had 3.25 rear with a ZL1 geared TR6060. Once driving they were great - long gears; however, when starting out I used a lot of clutch. It was a nightmare at the strip getting it to launch and I just couldn't very well even with anti-lag and 2-step. So, I am going to try an extreme with 4.11 which sounds silly, but with a 4,400lbs car I think I can still load the 65/65 turbos. We shall see shortly.
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Old 09-16-2021, 02:16 PM   #14
RupertPupkin

 
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Originally Posted by dreksnot View Post
The Cortex EBC boost-by-gear has been working pretty well for me (it uses math to calculate what gear you're in). It's a pretty good overall EBC with all the features. I don't have it set up all the way but I've been able to manipulate duty-cycle through the RPMs to get a pretty level boost setting (gotta add DC while RPMs climb).




I had 3.25 rear with a ZL1 geared TR6060. Once driving they were great - long gears; however, when starting out I used a lot of clutch. It was a nightmare at the strip getting it to launch and I just couldn't very well even with anti-lag and 2-step. So, I am going to try an extreme with 4.11 which sounds silly, but with a 4,400lbs car I think I can still load the 65/65 turbos. We shall see shortly.

The shop recommended the cortex, and thatís the only 1 they used. Not a bad price point for the features.
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