[Number 3]

[QUOTE=Stex;8457779]

Originally Posted by suplex

These are all great points people are making. It's really about the only car technology I am not crazy about (Start/Stop). I think it's a pretty safe bet the Camaro won't have it, as it would have been somewhere online where they'd be talking about it.

One thing I love that the new Cadillac CR6 is going to have is called "Four Wheel Steering". That's when the back wheels move slightly to the Left if you steer the car to the Right (and Vice Versa), I WISH the Camaro's had that!!![/QUOTE]

GMC had that for awhile on their trucks. It was a bust.

As Fen will point out, much of it was pricing.m it started at $4,000 or something. By the end it was heavily discounted but still did not sell.

And what is in the CT6 will be a bit different in execution than the truck. On the truck it made the vehicle so wide it needed a fender.

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Supposedly at least one powertrain option was supposed to get start/stop but that appears to have fizzled out.



A/C and heat still run.



Pretty sure they run off the battery.



CT6, not CR6.



Quadrasteer was priced to high heavens, basically nobody could afford it. Plus it was packaged with either Sierra Denali or Sierra 2500, both of which were already expensive trucks.

Originally Posted by Denis

I stand watch at the gate coming onto base sometimes and these cars will come in with that start/stop thing. the car literally shuts down if its stopped for less than 3 seconds. I cant imagine the wear and tear on that starter motor.

everytime they pull in and out and I hear the car shut down and start back up I think of the repair cost of replacing starters and how little fuel that is actually saving. not to mention the lag from when I want to start driving to when I actually can because the car is off. Also what happens 6 years from now when the car develops a hard start condition? every time you come to a stop the car is going to crank multiple times before you can leave the traffic light? no thanks...

im glad this feature didn't make it onto the 6th gen.

Originally Posted by motorhead

This has to be the dumbest thing ever thought up for a car. What happens when you go to pull out and it lags or doesn't start at all? How many starters and batteries will these cars go through? Please leave this crap off of any performance car.

First you are all incorrectly assuming this feature is done with existing hardware. It isn't. It has a much better starter and battery.

Do you seriously think any OEM would not test for this?

it is all properly validated for temperature and the significantly higher starter cycles,

[motorhead]

[QUOTE=Number 3;8458695]

Originally Posted by Stex

As Fen will point out, much of it was pricing.m it started at $4,000 or something. By the end it was heavily discounted but still did not sell.

And what is in the CT6 will be a bit different in execution than the truck. On the truck it made the vehicle so wide it needed a fender.








First you are all incorrectly assuming this feature is done with existing hardware. It isn't. It has a much better starter and battery.

Do you seriously think any OEM would not test for this?

it is all properly validated for temperature and the significantly higher starter cycles,

Manufacturers test many things that end up being fails in the real world. I've seen it many times in my field alone and in the car world. The bristol two speed compressor for one. Great on paper, extensively tested, cause for many warranty calls and premature unit failures. I know for me that would be a deal breaker no matter what else the car had to offer. Time will tell if it was a good idea.

[SuperSound]

Agree with number 3. This isn't even just a one or two manufacture thing, almost every manufacture has start/stop on a vehicle. The components are stronger throughout. Now will they need replacing after the 6-10 year range, could be but how many people om average are keeping cars that long nowadays. Especially with technology increasing as fast as it is.

Also as far as lag, you aren't launching at a the strip. So half a sec (which is all mine takes to start) doesn't make a difference. As soon as I take my foot off the brake, it engages.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First you are all incorrectly assuming this feature is done with existing hardware. It isn't. It has a much better starter and battery.

Do you seriously think any OEM would not test for this?

it is all properly validated for temperature and the significantly higher starter cycles,

As the article I posted states the Malibu has two Batteries, one to start the car and one to run the electrical system when the engine is shut off.

As someone else pointed out there are many things that work in testing but fail to live up to expectations in the real world under actual operating conditions....

[Denis]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First you are all incorrectly assuming this feature is done with existing hardware. It isn't. It has a much better starter and battery.

Do you seriously think any OEM would not test for this?

it is all properly validated for temperature and the significantly higher starter cycles,

how much fuel does that really save?

and again, just because there is a "much better battery and starter" doesn't negate the fact that if you have a car starting issue (car needs a tune up or a sensor is bad) the car is going to stumble every time you come to a stop? no thanks.

[KMPrenger]

Lots of assumptions going on in this thread.

[Angrybird 12]

I bet those Takata airbags went through a lot of testing too and we see how that worked out..

[Insidian]

Originally Posted by suplex

One thing I love that the new Cadillac CR6 is going to have is called "Four Wheel Steering". That's when the back wheels move slightly to the Left if you steer the car to the Right (and Vice Versa), I WISH the Camaro's had that!!!

I don't know how it is currently implemented, but that idea is pretty dated. Nissan and Honda were doing it late80's/early 90s. My 1990 Nissan 300zxTT has it, it's called HICAS on those cars. There was a big discussion on whether it actually HURT your handling, possibly causing you to spin out faster in a curve. Hopefully the modern versions of it are better.

[FenwickHockey65]

Y'all do realize GM has been using start/stop for a while now? It's nothing new.

[motorhead]

Yep, that's why I bought a fusion over a Malibu. It was optional in the fusion where you have no choice in the Malibu. I don't want my engine turning on and off to only save on average $220 year in fuel. If I lived in the city then it may be better. Than again, if I lived in a city I would probably have some type of plug in or hybrid with all the gas saving goodies.

[Stex]

lol, John Deere has four way steering. Please not on the Camaro. And no start/stop! Will not buy a car/truck with such.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Lots of assumptions going on in this thread.

Yep. It's the same thing I saw on the BMW forums. If they don't include a disable button, then it would be a major annoyance to me.

[Number 3]

First, I am NOT and advocate. The cars I've driven with it, I don't like. But it's also just on principle. No one should judge until they've driven it. It is all but invisible. But you now it's there.

For the engine to stop, you need to be going 0 mph with your foot on the brake for 2 seconds or so. It knows you've come to a complete stop (who does that anymore LOL) and only then after you have stayed stopped for a period that would indicate more than a stop sign. When you lift your foot off the brake, yes the same on you are reaching over for the gas, the engine starts. It does so quickly enough that by the time your foot is on the gas your engine is running. I've never picked up a hick up or hesitation.

Also in Europe I believe Start/Stop is there for noise issues as well in the city. Keeps cars from sitting there and making terrible engine sounds

And on the Audi's I've driven with it, it's selectable. I believe that as long as you don't use the feature in your EPA number you can make it a selectable feature. Not sure about the regulations. It's similar to an ECO button.

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

As the article I posted states the Malibu has two Batteries, one to start the car and one to run the electrical system when the engine is shut off.

As someone else pointed out there are many things that work in testing but fail to live up to expectations in the real world under actual operating conditions....

Yes, there is always something the customer does that you don't anticipate in your test requirements. But as GM has had start stop for well over 5 years now in production, most of that is known. Yep, still something out there, but that will always be the case. You just can't measure or observe every possible thing a customer can do to your product.

But that is why GM and every OEM tests for 2 years then puts them in some type of field test (CTF) for more real world input.

Originally Posted by Denis

how much fuel does that really save?

and again, just because there is a "much better battery and starter" doesn't negate the fact that if you have a car starting issue (car needs a tune up or a sensor is bad) the car is going to stumble every time you come to a stop? no thanks.

One reason why making it selectable is the way to go. But the OEM assumes you are keeping your car in reasonable shape. If you are driving a hoopty mobile that barely starts and struggles to stay running, then yes, S/S could be an issue for that driver.

It helps the City number. I think it's about 1 mpg or so in the EPA schedule, but if you do more sitting, then it's higher.

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Lots of assumptions going on in this thread.

Yep, and most have probably never driven a vehicle with S/S

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I bet those Takata airbags went through a lot of testing too and we see how that worked out..

That was a corrosion issue as I understand it. And partly from the manufacturing process.

This has as much to do with S/S as it does with your radio working.

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Y'all do realize GM has been using start/stop for a while now? It's nothing new.

Mmmmmm hhmmmmmmm

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Yep. It's the same thing I saw on the BMW forums. If they don't include a disable button, then it would be a major annoyance to me.

Selectable is the way to go if implemented. A feature the customer can choose to use under conditions they choose.



Seriously, it really is invisible. But if you like to sit at a stop light and rev your engine because you DO enjoy those engine sounds, then that could be a big satisfaction issue for a car like the Camaro.

Again, not buying or selling. I personally don't like it, but it's just because it's one more thing I feel like I'm not controlling. Not because it doesn't work or because I think the car won't start back up.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Stex

lol, John Deere has four way steering. Please not on the Camaro. And no start/stop! Will not buy a car/truck with such.

And so does the Porsche 911.

Where a technology is used matters a lot less than how it is used. On the 911, it reduces the turning radius, makes it more nimble at moderate speeds, and more stable at high speeds. Another example implementation being more important than the tech is electric power steering. On some cars its terrible, because some automakers do a terrible job at implementing it. On other cars, its completely transparent or seen as an improvement -because the automaker took the time to do it right. Same goes for start/stop. On some cars its terrible (people regularly complain about it on German cars), while its a complete non-issue in others. Why? Sometimes its slapped on in order to improve fuel economy ratings (the Euro test cycle is very rewarding of start/stop as I understand it). But other automakers actually try to do a decent job at integrating the system such that it helps owners rather than hindering them.