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Old 04-12-2018, 02:52 PM   #995
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Originally Posted by TrackClub View Post
You are overly generalizing the situation and this reply is out of context. So dont just spread hate and feel sorry for yourself as there is no reason for that.
You might want to ponder who's insulting who here. The guy is literally selling a product and insulting customers. Also the reaction to the 2014 and 2016 Camaro's was nothing like this, so he's covering himself and lying about that to generalize that all reaction is negative. I don't 'feel sorry for myself' , i'm sorry at what they did to the Camaro. The fact that he doesn't care what the public think doesn't surprise me. He posted that publicly.

Remember that the next time a company tells you to go to facebook or twitter and give feedback.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:53 PM   #996
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Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan View Post
there you go. we're all just 'Haters' .
No one liked the 5th. No one liked the 2016.
Own a six gen and still lust for others when based on looks

Based on how this car feels and drives, and the amount of hype at release, you should be killing the competition. The proof is in the pudding
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:55 PM   #997
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Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan View Post
there you go. we're all just 'Haters' .
No one liked the 5th. No one liked the 2016.
I can't quite tell if you're serious...

I loved the 5th gen and I was excited to see the Camaro make a comeback. I didn't like the direction that the 6th gen took with a more modern look but it was still beautiful and aggressive.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:59 PM   #998
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Originally Posted by TrackClub View Post
You are overly generalizing the situation and this reply is out of context. So dont just spread hate and feel sorry for yourself as there is no reason for that.
Really? I don't think he's overly generalizing anything. It's pretty clear what was being said "We don't care what people think because people will eventually come around and buy it anyway".

"Don't spread hate" is a very clever way to shout down anyone who disagrees or doesn't appreciate being talked down to.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:00 PM   #999
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Originally Posted by GelflingEssence View Post
I can't quite tell if you're serious...

I loved the 5th gen and I was excited to see the Camaro make a comeback. I didn't like the direction that the 6th gen took with a more modern look but it was still beautiful and aggressive.
He's highlighting the absurdity of what Al-O said. "No one liked the refresh of the 5th Gen" "No one liked the 6th Gen"
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:13 PM   #1000
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Just imo but this is Big Al's way of saying we get attached to what we have and like NOW scream and kick when he refeshes it then we love it again until we scream and kick because he refreshes it again. Do you see the cycle? I do. And it makes sense. Change is rarily done thru consensus. Get 5 guys in a room and they cant agree what beer to buy. So they each bring their own brand because it is the "best". Well, when our beer expirez and Al needs to change it he can only order one brand. Hence he picks whats best. Because he is the chief engineer. But if and when he screws up and his idea of "best" tanks, rest assured he will be replaced. GM is a biz not a charity nor an enthusiast club.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:14 PM   #1001
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Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife View Post
He's highlighting the absurdity of what Al-O said. "No one liked the refresh of the 5th Gen" "No one liked the 6th Gen"
Omg pls dont take such metaphors literally for petes sake!!! Are u kidding me???
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:25 PM   #1002
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Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife View Post
Really? I don't think he's overly generalizing anything. It's pretty clear what was being said "We don't care what people think because people will eventually come around and buy it anyway".

"Don't spread hate" is a very clever way to shout down anyone who disagrees or doesn't appreciate being talked down to.
Agree. But so it taking poetic licence and somehow translating what Al actually said into "we are all haters". Thats simply untrue and waaaay below the belt. And i didnt appreciate it one little bit. Because i somehow got included in the "all" without ever been asked. So when one twists what was actually said and then assumes a role of the "we all" leader, they surely deserve "dont spread the hate" comment. Every time.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:30 PM   #1003
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Originally Posted by TrackClub View Post
Agree. But so it taking poetic licence and somehow translating what Al actually said into "we are all haters". Thats simply untrue and waaaay below the belt. And i didnt appreciate it one little bit. Because i somehow got included in the "all" without ever been asked. So when one twists what was actually said and then assumes a role of the "we all" leader, they surely deserve "dont spread the hate" comment. Every time.
You don't like being lumped into "we all", perhaps AZcamarofan doesn't like to be lumped into "no one" that Al O. used.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:38 PM   #1004
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You don't like being lumped into "we all", perhaps AZcamarofan doesn't like to be lumped into "no one" that Al O. used.
Good point and i get it - thanks!

What i am having an allergic reaction to is him changing Al's words into "we are all haters". Thats going way too far. And very unfair as most folks dont go back x pages to read the op.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:44 PM   #1005
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Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan View Post
Yeah why would we comment? you're right , our opinions don't matter.
Those of us that defended gm through the bailout, defended the sales recently, the size, etc. Those of us that actually love every camaro compared to people i've seen around here saying things like 'i only like the 5th and the 1st. the rest are ugly'
Why would my opinion matter.

If the criticism doesn't matter, neither does the praise.

Have at it, i'm done defending, people like me don't matter.
Do you own a gen6 Camaro? Do/did you have any intention of buying a 19? If not, maybe back off a little because the people that do will consider it their baby.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:44 PM   #1006
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Well, when someone uses "no one". it pretty much implies that everyone that didn't like the refresh are haters. so, if you are one that doesn't like the refresh, you are in fact, a hater, per Al O. And I took AZ's post as "we all", are the ones that dislike the refresh. If you like the refresh, he's not talking about you. If you don't like the refresh, well then AZ isn't clumping you into "we all", Al O. is.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:48 PM   #1007
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Originally Posted by hotlap View Post


Do you own a gen6 Camaro? Do/did you have any intention of buying a 19? If not, maybe back off a little because the people that do will consider it their baby.
What if he is? Then it would be ok?
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:54 PM   #1008
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Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife View Post
If the only way they can get really strong sales is by putting cash on the hood..that's a bad sign.

I remember when the 5th Gen came out..people were gobbling them up at MSRP, or even MSRP+..sometimes 10,000 a month, with many at MSRP.

The fact is that the Gen 6 got more expensive and the market is saturated with Camaro..same with the Mustang and Challenger. The difference is you can reliably get below MSRP with the Mustang (X-plan) and FCA usually has pretty good promos on the Challenger.


FYI - Feedback below. Camaro leads retail sales and average transaction price by a significant margin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
Are you talking personnel or are you talking targets and objectives? Personnel has not changed that I can tell. Chief Engineer, Asst. Chief Engineer, Program Manager, Marketing Directors and Managers, Product Development Leadership, are all the same. Not totally certain about Design. I’m pretty sure that John Mack has been involved at some level all along but I can’t recall if his role is the same as it was for Gen 6 V1.

If it is in terms of strategic focus, maybe. I don’t know. Been gone a year. But what I can say without getting in trouble (I hope) is that when I was still there “leadership” was pretty much defined as having the best performing car in the segment delivered profitably. Winning the sales crown would be great, but secondary. And within that, retail sales where the eventual owner chooses the car over competitors was deemed more important than fleet sales. I am not aware of that changing with this refresh, but to significantly change that approach would probably require fundamental changes in the car that could only be delivered through a Program Major. It will be interesting to see if the approach is still the same for Gen 7.
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