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Old 10-20-2015, 11:20 AM   #1
Scalded Dog


 
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Stunned by the cost... just wow.

My passenger air bag recently started malfunctioning. Did a lot of online research (most of it here on C5), and was pretty sure that it was a malfunctioning PPS (passenger Presence sensor). Many have reported a repair cost of $700... even as high as $800.

I took it to Crest Chevrolet in San Bernardino, CA. The estimate for the estimate (yep: They estimated $104 to look at the car to estimate what the repair cost would be) was bad enough... and I braced myself for an $800 stunner.

Instead, it came to $1400. Now, for $104, you don't even get a written breakdown... you get a gum- popping receptionist who gives a verbal estimate only, when she tells ya, "It'll be $1400 if you want it fixed." That's all. You then pay your $104 for the service, and you go home to curl up in the fetal position and cry.

What. The. Hell.

This seems to be a common problem in these cars... but it's not a recall item. GM won't help you out... if you don't have the money, and a Mack truck crosses the double- yellow, your passenger is going to face- plant without a pillow. And $1400 is a ridiculous, obscene, crazy number for something that is clearly a manufacturer defect, since I have certainly done nothing to the air bag system to have caused its untimely failure.

Not pleased today. Can't even drive the car, because in addition to the red lights on the dash, the warnings on the DIC, and the flashing on/ off indicator, there's an audible chime that alerts you, about once per minute, that there's a problem with the air bags. You can't ignore it... that sound will make you utterly insane. So, I can either pony up $1400 for a manufacturer defect... or I can park this f'n car. Great selection of choices.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:26 AM   #2
GretchenGotGrowl


 
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Time to find another shop.

AIR BAGS:FRONTAL

Date Reported
SEPTEMBER 01, 2010
NHTSA Reference
#10036025
TSB Reference
#PI-0241
Description: CHEVROLET: SIR/AIRBAG INDICATOR/LIGHT ON IN THE INSTRUMENT PANEL CLUSTER (IPC); DTCS B0074 AND B0081 SET. DO NOT REPLACE THE PASSENGER PRESENCE SYSTEM (PPS) MODULE OR SENSING AND DIAGNOSTIC MODULE (SDM) FOR THIS CONCERN. *PE

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AIR BAGS:FRONTAL:SENSOR/CONTROL MODULE

Date Reported
OCTOBER 01, 2012
NHTSA Reference
#10047441
TSB Reference
#SB-12-09-41-001
Description: BUICK/CHEVROLET: INFORMATION BEING PROVIDED REGARDING COUNTERFEIT VEHICLE AIRBAG MODULES. MODELS 2011-2012 CAMARO, VOLT, CRUZE. 2010-2011 LACROSSE. 2006-2010 AVEO. *PE UPDATED 12/4/12. *PE

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Date Reported
SEPTEMBER 01, 2010
NHTSA Reference
#10036025
TSB Reference
#PI-0241
Description: CHEVROLET: SIR/AIRBAG INDICATOR/LIGHT ON IN THE INSTRUMENT PANEL CLUSTER (IPC); DTCS B0074 AND B0081 SET. DO NOT REPLACE THE PASSENGER PRESENCE SYSTEM (PPS) MODULE OR SENSING AND DIAGNOSTIC MODULE (SDM) FOR THIS CONCERN. *PE

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AIR BAGS:SIDE/WINDOW

Date Reported
OCTOBER 01, 2011
NHTSA Reference
#10042304
TSB Reference
#PIC-5538-A
Description: CHEVROLET: CERTAIN VEHICLE EXHIBITING SYMPTOM(S) OF AN INTERMITTENT SIR INDICATOR LAMP ON OR MESSAGE DISPLAYED. *PE

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SEAT BELTS

Date Reported
JANUARY 01, 2012
NHTSA Reference
#10038294
TSB Reference
#09-09-40-001A
Description: GM: THERE ARE SEAT BELT PROBLEMS: DIFFICULTY LATCHING AND UNLATCHING BUCKLE. BUCKLE RELEASE BUTTON IS STICKING. SEAT BELT WARNING LIGHT ILLUMINATED. LIKELY CAUSED BY STICKY BEVERAGES THAT ARE SPILLED INTO THE BUCKLE ASSEMBLY. *RM UPDATED 4/

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SEAT BELTS:FRONT:WEBBING

Date Reported
OCTOBER 01, 2011
NHTSA Reference
#10037184
TSB Reference
#05-09-40-002E
Description: GM: SERVICE BULLETIN EXPLAINING WHEN THE SAFETY BELTS ARE SUPPOSED TO LOCK. *RM UPDATED 12/6/11. *PE

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SEAT BELTS:FRONT:RETRACTOR

Date Reported
OCTOBER 01, 2011
NHTSA Reference
#10037184
TSB Reference
#05-09-40-002E
Description: GM: SERVICE BULLETIN EXPLAINING WHEN THE SAFETY BELTS ARE SUPPOSED TO LOCK. *RM UPDATED 12/6/11. *PE

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SEAT BELTS:FRONT:WARNING LIGHT/DEVICES

Date Reported
JANUARY 01, 2012
NHTSA Reference
#10038294
TSB Reference
#09-09-40-001A
Description: GM: THERE ARE SEAT BELT PROBLEMS: DIFFICULTY LATCHING AND UNLATCHING BUCKLE. BUCKLE RELEASE BUTTON IS STICKING. SEAT BELT WARNING LIGHT ILLUMINATED. LIKELY CAUSED BY STICKY BEVERAGES THAT ARE SPILLED INTO THE BUCKLE ASSEMBLY. *RM UPDATED 4/

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STRUCTURE:FRAME AND MEMBERS

Date Reported
APRIL 01, 2012
NHTSA Reference
#10037570
TSB Reference
#PIT-3749D
Description: GM: ON SOME TRUCK MODELS THERE IS SOME FRAME CORROSION. *RM UPDATED ON 5/2/2012. *KB

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STRUCTURE:BODYOOR

Date Reported
NOVEMBER 01, 2013
NHTSA Reference
#10054243
TSB Reference
#PI-0018-B
Description: GENERAL MOTORS: THE WINDOWS, FRONT AND REAR, WOULD BIND, POOR FIT, MISALIGNMENT, MAKES RATTLE OR SQUEAKING NOISES, MOVES SLOWLY AND IS INOPERATIVE. MODEL 2008-2014 VEHICLES AND TRUCKS. *PE

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LATCHES/LOCKS/LINKAGES

Date Reported
APRIL 01, 2013
NHTSA Reference
#10037315
TSB Reference
#PI-0291
Description: GM: THE DRIVER OR PASSENGER SEAT BACK LATCH MAY BE DIFFICULT TO OPERATE DUE TO IMPROPER LUBRICATION. *RM UPDATED ON 06/25/2013. *KB

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Date Reported
MARCH 01, 2012
NHTSA Reference
#10043943
TSB Reference
#PIT-4893B
Description: GM: DOOR LOCK ACTUATORS INOPERATIVE - PASSIVE ENTRY AND/OR BUTTON PRESS. *KB

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LATCHES/LOCKS/LINKAGESOORS:LATCH

Date Reported
JUNE 01, 2013
NHTSA Reference
#10038344
TSB Reference
#PI-0011A
Description: GM: THE FRONT OR REAR DOOR MAY NOT OPEN FROM THE INSIDE OR OUTSIDE HANDLE, THE DOOR WILL NOT UNLOCK WITH ANY METHOD. THE PROBABLY CAUSE AN INCORRECT INSTALLATION OF A HANDLE COMPONENT. *RM UPDATED ON 7/26/2013. ALL 2014 AND PRIOR GM PASS

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Date Reported
OCTOBER 01, 2012
NHTSA Reference
#10032453
TSB Reference
#PIT-4931
Description: GMC/CHEVROLET/CADILLAC/BUICK: A DOOR MAY NOT OPEN, INTERMITTENTLY, W/THE OUTSIDE HANDLE AND/OR THE INSIDE HANDLE. MAY BE CAUSED IF THE LINKAGE ON THE DOOR LATCH IS NOT ALLOWED TO FULLY RETURN TO ITS RELAXED POSITION. *PE UPDATED O

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TIRES:PRESSURE MONITORING AND REGULATING SYSTEMS

Date Reported
JANUARY 01, 2011
NHTSA Reference
#10037932
TSB Reference
#PIE-0119A
Description: GM: TIRE PRESSURE MONITOR MALFUNCTION LIGHT IS ON. *RM

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ELECTRONIC STABILITY CONTROL

Date Reported
DECEMBER 01, 2011
NHTSA Reference
#10043012
TSB Reference
#PIC-5551-A
Description: CHEVROLET: SOME MODEL YEAR VEHICLES ARE EXPERIENCING A DROP/SPIKE IN SPEED ON ANY WHEEL SPEED SENSOR AFTER NOISE, RATCHET, GRIND, OR ABS PUMP MOTOR, WAS HEARD, FROM FRONT OF VEHICLE. *PE

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INTERIOR LIGHTING

Date Reported
AUGUST 01, 2013
NHTSA Reference
#10052822
TSB Reference
#09-08-42-005-D
Description: GM: SOME VEHICLES WITH A LIGHT PIPED DOOR TRIM THE ACCENT LIGHTING ON THE INSTRUMENT PANEL LOSES ITS INTENSITY OR DOES NOT ILLUMINATE THE ENTIRE PANEL. THIS APPLIES SOME GM VEHICLES WITH A LIGHT PIPED DOOR TRIM. *JS

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EQUIPMENT:ELECTRICAL:ANTI-THEFT DEVICES

Date Reported
OCTOBER 01, 2013
NHTSA Reference
#10053904
TSB Reference
#PIC-5862
Description: GM: SOME VEHICLES MAY EXPERIENCE A CONDITION IN WHICH THE BRAKE LIGHTS REMAIN WHEN THE VEHICLE IS OFF AND PARKED. THE BATTERY MAY ALSO GO DEAD. MAKE/MODELS ALSO INCLUDED: BUICK ENCORE/LACROSSE/REGAL MODEL YEAR 2014, CADILLAC SRX/XTS MODEL

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EQUIPMENT:AIR CONDITIONER

Date Reported
MAY 01, 2011
NHTSA Reference
#10038763
TSB Reference
#PB-11160A
Description: GM SERVICE CAMPAIGN: SEE DOCUMENT SEARCH BUTTON FOR OWNER LETTER. 2011 CAMARO. AIR CONDITIONING COMPRESSOR MAY NOT TURN ON OR OFF. THIS IS CAUSED BY THE BODY CONTROL MODULE. *RM

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Date Reported
AUGUST 01, 2010
NHTSA Reference
#10036004
TSB Reference
#PI-0203
Description: CHEVROLET: WATER/MOISTURE DRIPPING FROM HVAC MODULE AT PASSENGER FEET AREA DURING LEFT HAND TURNS. WHEN USING AIR CONDITIONING ON HOT/HIGH HUMIDITY DAY AND VEHICLE IS MAKING LEFT TURN, MOISTURE DRIP OUT OF THE HVAC MODULE ONTO PASSENGER F

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EQUIPMENT ADAPTIVE

Date Reported
APRIL 01, 2012
NHTSA Reference
#10044219
TSB Reference
#PB-12052
Description: CHEVROLET: SEE DOCUMENT SEARCH BUTTON FOR OWNER LETTER. ON SOME VEHICLES, HEADLINER CORNER SUPPORT BRACKET MAY TEAR OR CONTACT CONVERTIBLE TOP WHEN IN DOWN POSITION AND HAVE WIND NOISE AT REAR OR FRONT QUARTER GLASS. *PE UPDA

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UNKNOWN OR OTHER

Date Reported
FEBRUARY 01, 2011
NHTSA Reference
#10038295
TSB Reference
#10-00-89-017C
Description: GM: INFORMATION ON FIXING MULTIPLE SITUATIONS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. *RM

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Date Reported
DECEMBER 01, 2010
NHTSA Reference
#10037890
TSB Reference
#PI-0327
Description: GM: THE CENTER CONSOLE AUXILLARY GUAGES MAY NOT WORK BECAUSE OF A POOR WIRE CONNECTION. 2010-2011 CAMARO. *RM

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ENGINE (PWS)

Date Reported
AUGUST 01, 2014
NHTSA Reference
#10056361
TSB Reference
#PIP-5216
Description: BUICK/CADILLAC/CHEVROLET/SATURN/PONTIAC/ GMC: VEHICLE EXPERIENCE LOWER END SQUEAK OR SQUEAL, KNOCKING NOISE OR SEIZED ENGINE POSSIBLY THE MAIN BEARING OR ROD HAD FAILED. *PE

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Date Reported
APRIL 01, 2014
NHTSA Reference
#10055422
TSB Reference
#PIP-3423-K
Description: GM: SOME DTC CODES MAY BE SET, P0016, P0017, P0018, P0019, P0008, OR P0009. 3.6 LY7 WITH CAM ACTUATOR DTC.THE RELUCTOR FOR THE CRANKSHAFT SENSOR PRESSED ON THE CRANKSHAFT MAY HAVE MOVED. ALSO INCLUDED BUICK ALLURE MODEL YEAR 2005. *JS

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Date Reported
APRIL 01, 2014
NHTSA Reference
#10052863
TSB Reference
#12-06-01-009-D
Description: GM: SOME VEHICLES REQUIRE REPLACEMENTS FOR HIGH FEATURE V6 TIMING CHAIN KITS AND GUIDE REPLACEMENTS. ALSO INCLUDED CHEVROLET CAPTIVA. MODEL YEARS 2007-2013. *JS UPDATED 7/18/14. *PE

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Date Reported
APRIL 01, 2014
NHTSA Reference
#10055840
TSB Reference
#PIP-5168-C
Description: GMC/CHEVROLET: SOME VEHICLES/TRUCKS MAY EXPERIENCE A NO CRANKING OR STARTING, CAUSED BY POSSIBLE EXCESSIVE LEAKAGE FROM CYLINDER PAST EXHAUST OR INTAKE VALVE, LOW STATIC COMPRESSION, SENSOR IS DISCONNECTED, OR WHILE CRANKING, VALVE TRAIN F

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Complaints
Recalls
Investigations
TSBs


http://www.chevroletproblems.com/tsbs/Camaro/2011/

Just do a search for air and it is about halfway down the page.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:28 AM   #3
NJBourne23
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I would contact Chevrolet/GM directly and explain that this should be covered under a warranty. No critical parts like that should be failing so soon unless you did something to the vehicle to cause that. $1400 is def a lot of money for a sensor but maybe you can have another shop check it out? The sad part is that they probably just hooked it up to the computer to have it read out what the problem is
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Old 10-20-2015, 12:21 PM   #4
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I assume they just hooked up a scantron or something similar to the OBDII port to determine the issue. I hate shops that charge $$ for this. You can buy your own scanner for a few hundred $$, and autozone lets you use one for free.

I would go get your own scanner to get the code and then ask around at diff shops. Dealers are notoriously expensive when it comes to repairs. I never take my vehicles to dealers after they're out of warranty.
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Old 10-20-2015, 12:27 PM   #5
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I remember there was a re-flash for this. For your $104 they should have looked up recalls / service bulletins.
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Old 10-20-2015, 01:14 PM   #6
Scalded Dog


 
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I appreciate the advice/ comments, my friends. I will indeed be taking it to another shop... might cost me another $100 or so, but if a second GM dealer also tells me the same thing, then I'll be more inclined to believe them. At the dealership (Rotolo) I plan to go to for my second opinion, customers can actually speak with the techs, so I can discuss TSBs/ recalls/ re- flash options. At Crest Chevrolet (where I went yesterday), I was only able to speak with the gum- popping receptionist, and I strongly suspect that the techs (who I could see out in the bays playing fiddle- fluck with each other) were probably way too busy to look up TSBs, and just figured, "Well, it don't work, by dang, so let's just replace everything!" That's my guess, anyhow.

So, I will get a second opinion, and I'll keep you posted.

(BTW, the OBD scanner--- which I have and use often--- does not read these errors. It's designed for CEL codes that are triggered, but nothing shows for the air bag errors. And, for today's fun trivia, in CA, AutoZone is no longer allowed to let customers use the store's OBD units, because CA mechanics sued to prevent it, saying that too many people were fixing their own damn cars, thanks to AutoZone letting people diagnose their own problems. So, here, if you want an OBD code to be read, you either have to pay, or own the reader yourself.)
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:34 PM   #7
hawk02
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I just fought this same issue on a 2004 GMC Sierra.

Dealer read the code as a communication error with the passenger presence sensor and wanted to change over $900 to fix it. I found the sensor itself through one of the online GM part stores for a $130 less than the dealer was going to charge me.

Three months after replacing the passenger presence sensor, the service air bag light came back on. I knew it couldn't be the sensor since there had been less than 10 occasions that someone had even sat in the passenger seat.

I started searching the interweb and discovered a TSB from 2004 that indicated an issue with the wiring harness under the passenger seat.

Took the TSB and truck back to the dealer and sure enough the wiring harness was completely cut right at the connector. The dealer soudered on a new connector and rerouted the harness per the TSB.

Three months later the service air bag message returned. This time it was another wire that was cut. Needless to say I traded the truck shortly thereafter for a 2015 Silverado.

I owned that Sierra for over 11 years without a single problem. The whole service air bag and passenger presence issue just started in the last 6 months of ownership. As it turns out, my 13 yr old dog could no longer jump from the ground to the back seat of the pick up. I started having to move the passenger seat all the way forward so she could jump to the floor first and then jump to the back seat. My moving the passenger seat forward and back crimped the wiring harness and eventually cut through all the wires. Took about 3 month for this to occur each time.

So the moral of the story is make sure you haven't cut any wires under the seat before you replace the passenger presence system. Looking back I'm 99.999% positive I didn't need to replace the original sensor.

Just so you know, my dealer says that when one air bag is inoperable, all the air bags are inoperable. Don't know how true this is but I sure wouldn't want to find out in an accident.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:03 PM   #8
VTSummit
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If one airbag is inop, it doesn't necessarily make them all inop- they say that to cover their ass. Once there is an issue with the system, all bets are off how it will react in an accident and nobody will take the liability of telling you either way.
Check connections under the seat- I'll bet you can find the problem.

As for the guy saying "just call GM and tell them is should be under warranty" that's just not how it works. The warranty is clearly stated. That doesn't mean you can't call and ask for them to participate in the repair or show some good will in that sense, but the terms of the warranty are specific.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:12 PM   #9
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Why do you keep going to GM dealerships? Are there any reputable independent mechanics in your area? They can all diagnose and fix the issue for half the price
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:46 PM   #10
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google chevrolet customer assistance.
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Old 10-20-2015, 04:04 PM   #11
Scalded Dog


 
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I've tried a couple of independent shops, local places that I trust... halfway through any attempt to describe the issue, I'm told, "Whoa, buddy... that's a dealership issue... nobody's going to touch that!" From what I understand, no matter what the issue here, the SDM will need to be flashed/ re- flashed/ programmed/ whatever, and only the dealership holds the magic key to perform that maneuver. I avoid dealerships like the plague, I really do... I do 90% of my own work, 8% of it goes to local shops. Only that 2% of crap that nobody else seems to be able to do goes to the dealership.

I've been under the seat (well, I removed it), looking for wire- based failures. Even had an automotive electrician go through it, hoping to find a loose, disconnected, or frayed wire... no such luck. All wires and harnesses seem to be 100%. Damnit.
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Old 10-20-2015, 04:57 PM   #12
GVA 45TH 2SS
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Go to a Cadilac dealer, they have access to the same info. They fixed mine under warranty 2 years ago. I think they may have better customer service as well
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Old 10-20-2015, 05:45 PM   #13
lawman007
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Did you check your fuses? You need to look at the owner's manual.
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:49 PM   #14
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I'm not sure I want mine to work and have a chance of spraying shrapnel at me or my love ones. It seems like everyday a new model is part of that.
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