[JaxChris]

If its' true that Gen6.5 has been scrapped for Gen7, then it must be to keep Cadillac in business. Cadillac couldn't offer a RWD car today without the Camaro propping up the platforms volume. And if this totally baseless rumor was true, then the rumor that the Impala was put on the cut list to move it back to RWD and possibly AWD is also true.

At that point I would hope both were true because GM is seriously lacking a powerful sedan for Chevrolet right now. The current Impala has poor trim packaging and uses the same crappy materials as the current (super crappy) Malibu. The SS Sedan was never marketed properly and made overseas at lower volume & higher expense that they couldn't offer it up against the Charger properly. The SS Sedan should've been the first to receive new powertrains before they went into the Camaro or CTS.

Another vehicle, even a low volume one, sharing the platform costs of Alpha or Alpha2 is best all around. And if they don't call it Impala again, I wish they bring back 'Chevelle' or pick a new name, but nothing as overly-generic and confusing as 'SS'.

[Strider044]

I still see Camaro being the main performance car for Chevrolet and Corvette going supercar. But that's me. I don't see them dropping the price at all.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

If its' true that Gen6.5 has been scrapped for Gen7, then it must be to keep Cadillac in business. Cadillac couldn't offer a RWD car today without the Camaro propping up the platforms volume. And if this totally baseless rumor was true, then the rumor that the Impala was put on the cut list to move it back to RWD and possibly AWD is also true.

At that point I would hope both were true because GM is seriously lacking a powerful sedan for Chevrolet right now. The current Impala has poor trim packaging and uses the same crappy materials as the current (super crappy) Malibu. The SS Sedan was never marketed properly and made overseas at lower volume & higher expense that they couldn't offer it up against the Charger properly. The SS Sedan should've been the first to receive new powertrains before they went into the Camaro or CTS.

Another vehicle, even a low volume one, sharing the platform costs of Alpha or Alpha2 is best all around. And if they don't call it Impala again, I wish they bring back 'Chevelle' or pick a new name, but nothing as overly-generic and confusing as 'SS'.

Zeta was not certified for the Gen V Small Block and it was not worth the money to do so on a dying platform.

The SS sedan did its duty which was to help keep Elizabeth running efficiently taking up as much excess capacity as possible. It was never meant to be a volume seller. It was always meant to be a niche product. Now they might have wished to sell a bit more, but it wasn’t meant to head to head with Charger.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

There are things I simply cannot say.

Ha!

6 years out of the loop now. So everything I was ever involved in is now in production.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

If its' true that Gen6.5 has been scrapped for Gen7, then it must be to keep Cadillac in business. Cadillac couldn't offer a RWD car today without the Camaro propping up the platforms volume. And if this totally baseless rumor was true, then the rumor that the Impala was put on the cut list to move it back to RWD and possibly AWD is also true.

At that point I would hope both were true because GM is seriously lacking a powerful sedan for Chevrolet right now. The current Impala has poor trim packaging and uses the same crappy materials as the current (super crappy) Malibu. The SS Sedan was never marketed properly and made overseas at lower volume & higher expense that they couldn't offer it up against the Charger properly. The SS Sedan should've been the first to receive new powertrains before they went into the Camaro or CTS.

Another vehicle, even a low volume one, sharing the platform costs of Alpha or Alpha2 is best all around. And if they don't call it Impala again, I wish they bring back 'Chevelle' or pick a new name, but nothing as overly-generic and confusing as 'SS'.

I agree with everything you wrote. Cadillac needs Camaro’s volume to prop up its coupe and sedan models and Chevy needs a serious SS sedan to give more volume. It’s been pointed out that a V8 Chevy sedan would cannibalize Camaro sales. That’s not completely true since Dodge managed to sell 74,000 Chargers in 2017 along with its 51,000 Challengers.

I always felt that I lost a reason to buy GM when everything went front drive in the 80s. Nothing distinctive about the driving experience so the choice became who made the cheapest, most reliable.... Give customers a reason to buy a coupe or sedan and maybe they wouldn’t all buy a SUV.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

There are things I simply cannot say.

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ha!

6 years out of the loop now. So everything I was ever involved in is now in production.

I should clarify a bit. You have a lot of correct info and draw logical conclusions from them. During the time I was preparing my exit, there were things going on that I cannot speak of. There is a very interesting piece of info that you would have no way of knowing. Unless those things have changed significantly since I left, they would change some of the conclusions you have arrived at.

Significant change is not entirely out of the question. Shortly after I left, GM's vehicle electrification strategy (which I was tangentially involved in) took a wide left turn. I certainly didn't see it coming, and I had recently done work for and had lengthy conversations with some of the people involved in the change.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I agree with everything you wrote. Cadillac needs Camaro’s volume to prop up its coupe and sedan models and Chevy needs a serious SS sedan to give more volume. It’s been pointed out that a V8 Chevy sedan would cannibalize Camaro sales. That’s not completely true since Dodge managed to sell 74,000 Chargers in 2017 along with its 51,000 Challengers.

I always felt that I lost a reason to buy GM when everything went front drive in the 80s. Nothing distinctive about the driving experience so the choice became who made the cheapest, most reliable.... Give customers a reason to buy a coupe or sedan and maybe they wouldn’t all buy a SUV.

Sadly it is more likely GM just lets the Impala die off. Sedans aren't selling and investment in an all new one for Chevrolet seems unlikely.

Ford just cancelled the 2020 Fusion program and there is certainly nothing popping up to replace the now 8 year old Taurus (although there is a 7th generation Taurus on sale in China).

Note Ford is now coming out with performance variants of SUVs. ST Edge just announced.

If ATS and CTS were selling anywhere close to the hoped for volumes, there wouldn't be room for the Camaro in LGR. Also keep in mind, Cadillac, like Buick, is selling more cars in China now than here in the US. Last month it was just under 10,000 here and 20,000 Cadillacs in the China.

So not only will we be seeing more SUVs for our market, we will be seeing more development $$ going to develop cars for the Chinese market. A market where engine displacement is heavily taxed and EVs are STRONGLY encouraged. Also note GM is, I believe, the first company to sell a Chinese made import.

Even Ferrari just announced an SUV.

So I would LOVE an Alpha2 based SS replacement. Been suggesting that for some time at SSForums. But I just replaced my SS as it was just getting old and my only real choice was to buy a newer version and 4 more years with effectively the same car didn't appeal to me and I just couldn't buy foreign (Kia Stinger and Dodge Challenger were considered). They need something new in this segment, but I just don't see it happening.

The other volume play for excess capacity in LGR would be the Avista. With Opel sold, GM will need a replacement in the Buick lineup for the Cascada at some point. And that could be the car to address some of the concerns people have with the Camaro regarding space, storage and visibility.

[DrkPhx]

Sedans are a dying breed and GM already has too many of them. I hope they start bringing out performance SUV's, that would be awesome.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I should clarify a bit. You have a lot of correct info and draw logical conclusions from them. During the time I was preparing my exit, there were things going on that I cannot speak of. There is a very interesting piece of info that you would have no way of knowing. Unless those things have changed significantly since I left, they would change some of the conclusions you have arrived at.

Significant change is not entirely out of the question. Shortly after I left, GM's vehicle electrification strategy (which I was tangentially involved in) took a wide left turn. I certainly didn't see it coming, and I had recently done work for and had lengthy conversations with some of the people involved in the change.

Ooooooh, now you've got me all excited.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sadly it is more likely GM just lets the Impala die off. Sedans aren't selling and investment in an all new one for Chevrolet seems unlikely.

Ford just cancelled the 2020 Fusion program and there is certainly nothing popping up to replace the now 8 year old Taurus (although there is a 7th generation Taurus on sale in China).

Note Ford is now coming out with performance variants of SUVs. ST Edge just announced.

If ATS and CTS were selling anywhere close to the hoped for volumes, there wouldn't be room for the Camaro in LGR. Also keep in mind, Cadillac, like Buick, is selling more cars in China now than here in the US. Last month it was just under 10,000 here and 20,000 Cadillacs in the China.

So not only will we be seeing more SUVs for our market, we will be seeing more development $$ going to develop cars for the Chinese market. A market where engine displacement is heavily taxed and EVs are STRONGLY encouraged. Also note GM is, I believe, the first company to sell a Chinese made import.

Even Ferrari just announced an SUV. Sad

So I would LOVE an Alpha2 based SS replacement. Been suggesting that for some time at SSForums. But I just replaced my SS as it was just getting old and my only real choice was to buy a newer version and 4 more years with effectively the same car didn't appeal to me and I just couldn't buy foreign (Kia Stinger and Dodge Challenger were considered). They need something new in this segment, but I just don't see it happening.

The other volume play for excess capacity in LGR would be the Avista. With Opel sold, GM will need a replacement in the Buick lineup for the Cascada at some point. And that could be the car to address some of the concerns people have with the Camaro regarding space, storage and visibility.

A Chevy sedan with a hatchback (ala Kia Stinger and Tesla Model S) would fill a niche. I can't image GM having nothing but SUV's could they offer a distinctive reason to choose a sedan.

I wonder if an opportunity exists similar to when Ford, Dodge and Chevy all bailed on performance in the mid 70s and Pontiac filled the void with the Trans Am...quadrupling its volume. Not everyone wants to drive a damn SUV. Sad

[Thill444]

Originally Posted by Strider044

I still see Camaro being the main performance car for Chevrolet and Corvette going supercar. But that's me. I don't see them dropping the price at all.

Most Corvette buyers cannot afford a $120-200K+ car. GM knows this. While there may be a supercar Corvette variant (like a Ford GT) I cannot imagine GM killing off the more affordable Corvette lineup and hoping those buyers will buy a Camaro instead...

I also can't imagine 7th gen Camaro pricing being cheaper than 6th gen unles GM simplifies and offers a lesser optioned and performing car. Just don't see it. Average new car cost continues to go up and consumers and qovt demand more tech, safety, and performance each year. People want upscale interiors and supercar performance for under $50K and it's just not realistic anymore.

[90503]

It seems like having to take many, many years to decide what types of cars to build is a sound policy. But with this "sudden" surge in demand and popularity for SUVs and Crossovers, the makers are in a panic mode to change, re-design, cancel certain models, etc., for what could turn out to be a giant mistake if demand changes. And it seems it can change a lot faster than the makers can adapt for. The big "guess" now is for SUV's, and if that changes....say, next year, the whole line-up mess now being implemented, is screwed.

I say, keep a balanced line up of all types of vehicles, so that when things change, there's no OMG we gotta cancel these, make more of those, etc....If this system worked there would be no shortage of SUVs for the market now, but there is. Why had this not been foreseen five, six years ago and adjustments made then? All it seems they are doing now is setting themselves up for another unforeseen change in the market demands that cannot be foreseen or adjusted to in a timely fashion.

On the plus side, it is good for consumers who want to get a good deal and buy something other than the flavor of the month....if it's still being built, that is. And at the rate things are going, that might be the case soon...a glut of trucks, suvs, crossovers, that they can't sell and nobody wants.

Auto-makers in the planning stages for future models...

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

A Chevy sedan with a hatchback (ala Kia Stinger and Tesla Model S) would fill a niche. I can't image GM having nothing but SUV's could they offer a distinctive reason to choose a sedan.

I wonder if an opportunity exists similar to when Ford, Dodge and Chevy bailed on performance in the mid 70s and Pontiac filled the void with the Trans Am...tripling its volume. Not everyone wants to drive a damn SUV. Sad

Not everybody, but mostbodys do.

And of course we already had the Trailblazer SS

Might have had a shot at that today if the Trailblazer replacement hadn't been cancelled. It actually was started. Too close to Lambda SUVs when you did the 3 row and the business case imploded. BOOM!

So unless GM starts spreading the 3.6TT from the XTS V-sport around the company your wish won't come true. Imagine a 400 HP Traverse.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 90503

It seems like having to take many, many years to decide what types of cars to build is a sound policy. But with this "sudden" surge in demand and popularity for SUVs and Crossovers, the makers are in a panic mode to change, re-design, cancel certain models, etc., for what could turn out to be a giant mistake if demand changes. And it seems it can change a lot faster than the makers can adapt for. The big "guess" now is for SUV's, and if that changes....say, next year, the whole line-up mess now being implemented, is screwed.

I say, keep a balanced line up of all types of vehicles, so that when things change, there's no OMG we gotta cancel these, make more of those, etc....If this system worked there would be no shortage of SUVs for the market now, but there is. Why had this not been foreseen five, six years ago and adjustments made then? All it seems they are doing now is setting themselves up for another unforeseen change in the market demands that cannot be foreseen or adjusted to in a timely fashion.

On the plus side, it is good for consumers who want to get a good deal and buy something other than the flavor of the month....if it's still being built, that is. And at the rate things are going, that might be the case soon...a glut of trucks, suvs, crossovers, that they can't sell and nobody wants.

Auto-makers in the planning stages for future models...
Attachment 920624

You are correct BUT the problem is you need to have the plan at least 4 years in advance at a MINIMUM. You have to balance programs, manufacturing capacity and have a clear understanding what the customer will want. In many cases you can't hedge or guess. A simple program is hundreds of millions of dollars. Major programs can run a billion or more depending on complexity.

Balance is very difficult to achieve. The only easy one is FST and SUVs.

Yes, you can work around things quickly if you make a mistake e.g. the Malibu programs I've referenced. But even that gets expensive trying to quickly remedy a mistake in the market. And you can't do it on every program.