Stock LS3 to LS7 complete engine swap

[christianchevell]

Well that 13,000 for the complete engine for swap is about twice what complete crate ls3 can be had for, frankly my 428 stroker ....new block clearanced, all forged rotating cost 5k the heads 1400 for new GM cnc ported..all other parts already there...and that's about half the cost. SO its about the differences; the ls7 has better things for some parts the block for instance and the sump, and stock for stock better internals but not that much better depending on use, and the heads were a problem on the ls7 at first then improved...

SO it is about costs , use, parts, lots to consider , and the nice thing about a ls7 is increased volume of the heads for really high HP applications which could even use better internals....and the 1.8 ratio allowing a lower lift cam and friendlier springs to make more power..... Considered it myself, went with a budget....if I had the money on my build I would have done up some Mast small bore LS7 heads and airforce intake and the Nick Williams 102...and still been money ahead.... and had a block that was cheaper to replace in the future for the displacement. Stroking mine so far had of course special pistons, you should talk to builders about what it is you want to accomplish. Longevity and use do matter for different engine combos, and Money. If you really want a beast consider a 454 LSX or something you can really hammer on with a sleeved iron block that can be a little heavier but re-sleeved is what I would do with the money so I bought a block I could see used for the life of the car and maybe beyond....

[Gasoholic]

Thanks Christian,
if you don't mind me asking, where did you get your LS3 428?


So far pretty much everyone I've talked to about this has looked at me funny and asked "why". Then given me a different recommendation.

A person from one of the local performance shops I spoke to last night at the Telegraph cruise, told me stroking my LS3 was a bad idea. She recommended against it because she said the pistons wouldn't handle it. She then went on to tell me I could get 1000 hp with a super charger.
I kinda just shrugged it off, I get this sort of stuff a lot. Some of these shops assume most people don't have a clue.
I don't really want to go that way just because seems like everyone is adding F/I these days. I want a naturally aspirated 600HP engine. And how in the word would someone think adding a super charger to my stock motor would be better than rebuilding it with a longer stroke and larger bore? It's not like I'd be doing it with OE parts.
I think these shops just like the idea of how easy it is to slap on F/I.


I did some more searching on this and found a company out of California that has a brand new LS7 long block with all forged internals for about $1000 more than the GM performance LS7 crate motor.
They also have a LS3 427 stroker long block again all forged internals for about $4000 less than the LS7.
Nice prices, but if I ever have problems I'm going to be on my own cause Cali is a long ways from here.

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by Gasoholic

Thanks Christian,
if you don't mind me asking, where did you get your LS3 428?


So far pretty much everyone I've talked to about this has looked at me funny and asked "why". Then given me a different recommendation.

A person from one of the local performance shops I spoke to last night at the Telegraph cruise, told me stroking my LS3 was a bad idea. She recommended against it because she said the pistons wouldn't handle it. She then went on to tell me I could get 1000 hp with a super charger.
I kinda just shrugged it off, I get this sort of stuff a lot. Some of these shops assume most people don't have a clue.
I don't really want to go that way just because seems like everyone is adding F/I these days. I want a naturally aspirated 600HP engine. And how in the word would someone think adding a super charger to my stock motor would be better than rebuilding it with a longer stroke and larger bore? It's not like I'd be doing it with OE parts.
I think these shops just like the idea of how easy it is to slap on F/I.


I did some more searching on this and found a company out of California that has a brand new LS7 long block with all forged internals for about $1000 more than the GM performance LS7 crate motor.
They also have a LS3 427 stroker long block again all forged internals for about $4000 less than the LS7.
Nice prices, but if I ever have problems I'm going to be on my own cause Cali is a long ways from here.

Must have had a chance to talk to Sam last night at the cruise?

No matter what other people's (including mine to just find a used ZL1) recommendations are, it just boils down to you considering all advise, then choose the path that makes you happy.
It's YOUR car not theirs. Just take the path of your own choice and enjoy the process.
Yes it may be cheaper (on your quest to HP) to go with a SC where all you need to do is change the pullies to bump it up when needed, but forced induction is what most people are doing, go your own way and get'r done with old fashioned displacement, stroking. and fuel induction.

I agree it's a lot more satisfying to mod your car yourself, rather than just buying something that already has the HP you're looking for. It's a big learning process, mod this, then change this, then change this, see what happens, then learn that NOW, because of the mods done, you need to change this as well, etc, etc.

It's a long and satisfying journey. Enjoy doing it YOUR way.

[Gasoholic]

Hi Tim,
it was nice to meet you yesterday.
Believe me, I take everyone's advice to heart. And I appreciate everyones advice more than you know. I may not always follow other peoples advice but I hope that doesn't offend or stop others from giving me advice. I weigh everything out and make my decisions based on what I think is best.

Biggest issue with finding a used ZL1, and yes when all is said and done I would have the same amount of money into it, is the fact that I don't know how that used ZL1 has been treated. I don't know what I'm getting. I could easily end up owning another project and having even less money to work on it than I have now.

[christianchevell]

I got my 428 from Sag performance in Angola Indiana called custom engine supply, they sell on ebay, when pricing things over the net I looked all over and considered every cost and what I wanted. I run a mild .613/.578 changed cam motion stage three with mild duration and 114+4 duration. I wanted to take it easy for a while until I can afford better intake and throttle body and maybe heads, and since I am just daily driving..... The thing is stroking it the little bit extra is not that great if I wanted say FI but is very small distance compared to say a 418.

Pistons used to be what were slapped in a stroker at first its the case of what happens with new engines to the market and over time special pistons are developed and of course the connecting rods. Getting that much stroke out of a ls3 does require clearancing for the connecting rod bolts on the bottoms of the pistons cylinders which are cast in and extend past the block walls, the pistons skirts also if they were stock would be longer and the design of the crown and ring lands different and it helps avoid piston rock at the end of the down stroke with pistons designed for the purpose.

Of course its been a good while since the LS engines came out so shopping can be informed and a good machine shop needs good parts, the shipping came free with the block being close it was like 1500$, the pistons I had to bump up delivery on being as they are that in demand and coming from racetec a smaller piston maker started by the former owner of JE piston who owned the largest maker of pistons in the world so I have confidence they are the best along with the Molnar rods and crank being as others make them into their name brands....big names you know and I used to wish to afford for other engines..LOL
so $850 for a 4340 4.125 forged crank, billet h rods ARP 2000 7/16 $500, total seal classic rings$ 100, king calico coated rod and main bearings $175and racetec autotec flat 4.065 pistons $500 that's $3625 in parts then add a few more with plugs and such and their install for couple more to make it ready to install and balancing beyong GM specs $250, machining assembly and blueprint $525 expedite on the pistons $90 or wait a month or two... and thank god shipping was free and I was at 5 grand.

I went to custom engine supply because like some other shops such as Thompson motorsport or other their volume and knowledge making so many engines and doing race engines which for a 600 rwhp engine you would want someplace like them telling you what you need N/A it would be a big cam like in the .700 range and 13 to 1 maybe some meth.... And its all in the right parts, different pistons or rings etc... for lots of sauce, or FI etc.....and having done so many they do not get them wrong.

I was able to talk to Jerry the machinist and see their shop online and the deal was hey its free shipping and beat the others prices with winter being when I ordered, ( summer every one that's in performance is slammed.....booked big time like two three months out sometimes...), and the price went up like $300 when season changed as costs and overtime change seasonally..I was keeping a eye on all the different places.

Anyway you being where you are I would go with Livernois you cannot go wrong with them, Lingenfelter while they are top end they make one of a kind parts sometimes others use and are one of the best but $$$ is bottom line and the deal is its all in differences in every build and costs of the machining and assembly. Then there is install..LOL and other supporting parts you buy; such as I bought a MAST windage tray made for a stroker and it still had to be clearance more.... And of course a good high volume pump not higher pressure as I am not FI and it improves the pressure of course being higher volume, and the C5r chain , ls2 dogbone dampener... stuff it adds up, and $1400 for CNC heads...

And so I have at a mustang dyno with a good tune about 483 torque and I think 476 hp now...with a fairly mild cam for my tastes and a monster lt1s clutch that drives like stock and can handle 700.

And my torque comes in right off the bat heck I did some posts before on it and anyway its like fourty-fifty higher than a raped ape cam I had before in a stock cube engine on torque all across the board and starts way higher on the food chain and makes me glad I have done some suspension work to keep it between the lines even with all the nannies on if I hammer it or get aggressive it has more than the tires and such can handle...and I don't hammer my stock axles .....someday they have to be upgraded for racing only zl1s are like $700 ish and 1000 hp is like 1200$..... Yup its all a package and lots to consider. So good luck, and you may want to look at SAG performances website it owns custom engine supply and you can see some awesome monsters maybe on their engine dyno..... Or as I said talk to Livernois, heck their used to be a vendor on here that had some real deals on strokers I think it may have been like Florida speed or Tampa tuning they do production higher the volume usually equates to better quality control for some and better prices.

The deal is ls7 has the heads and the displacement and not everyone stroking a ls3 is going to go that far out to need that improved flow of ls7 heads, or the twisty turny dry sump etc..... If I could recommend anyone to you to talk about your desires it would be to ask Tommy Wong my tuner in Vancouver but he is busier than a one handed hooker at a hand job convention ..its summer. And he uses things from seems to like the Lingenfelter blowers and such and yes slapping forced induction on a engine not tuned perfectly can be not just a disaster for the engine but also dangerous.

Hypereutectic is one step above just a cast slug cheapo bottom of line, the crank is ok for higher HP we have stock with balanced internals fair but that's it, there is a hot rod article on what breaks on the gen 5 Camaro......where is that thing...LOL Anyway good luck and research/ read up its all on you, and If I was up there Livernois is a no brainer and my wifes originally from Deluth..she escaped in a ICE shipment one day as a teen..

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-...parts-failure/

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by Gasoholic

Hi Tim,
it was nice to meet you yesterday.
Believe me, I take everyone's advice to heart. And I appreciate everyones advice more than you know. I may not always follow other peoples advice but I hope that doesn't offend or stop others from giving me advice. I weigh everything out and make my decisions based on what I think is best.

Biggest issue with finding a used ZL1, and yes when all is said and done I would have the same amount of money into it, is the fact that I don't know how that used ZL1 has been treated. I don't know what I'm getting. I could easily end up owning another project and having even less money to work on it than I have now.

Just one last comment on the ZL1 route, The ZL1's (coupes) came with PTM modes built in, to select performance from #1 wet and snow, all the way to #5, take it to a WELL PREPARED TRACK and just hammer it.
All while under a 100k mile warranty.

Enjoy your project !!

BTW, take the Camaro as it sits to a local dyno to get a baseline that you'll be able to use for comparison later on. It would also allow you to compare the current reading to what the previous owner said it was putting down, just to confirm the HP he told you it had to what our estimates were.
Were the dyno numbers he gave you stock or after the mods he did.?

[HDRDTD]

Here a couple more tidbits of sources of info that you might already know about.

Another local builder is Thompson Automotive
47451 Avante Dr, Wixom, MI 48393
Brian has been in business for a LONG time. I believe Lingenfelter's may have merged with him a few years ago, but He's still worth talking to.

47451 Avante Dr, Wixom, MI 48393

This is also the location for Lingenfelters in Wixom Mi where they host a Saturday Cars & Coffee that runs from 8-10am all summer long.
Might bew a handy place to visit Saturday and have a chance to talk to a whole slew of other car girls & guys. You'll usually find a few of us club members there as well.

Something else that I thought of. I'm not sure what you time table is to start your project, but for what it's worth, During the Woodward cruise, Chevrolet Performance has always had a large display right next to memorial park where many of us sit.
Head on over to the Performance booth and ask for a tall gentleman named Blake Nyle. A VERY nice man that happens to be a club member. He might have a few words of wisdom for you.

[_Chigga]

Originally Posted by Gasoholic

So after doing a lot of research on my LS3 stroker project I had an idea. Sort of came to me like a vision from heaven
It looks like I would have nearly as much money in the LS3 stroker project as I would if I did a complete upgrade/swap to an LS7.
Scoggin Dickey has a crate LS7 engine and controller pkg I'm looking at.
Okay so I'm using the term "nearly" as much money in a very broad sense. But heck whats a few thousand here or there
Anyway my question is, is there anyone who has tried doing this?
Any little things I need to consider?
Sort thinking this might could actually turn out pretty sweet. And when I'm done I could sell the LS3 to recoup some of my expenses.
What do yall think????

Hey man did you ever ended up doing that?

[Gasoholic]

Originally Posted by _Chigga

Hey man did you ever ended up doing that?

Ended up having Livernois put me together an LS3 short block and set of heads. Then I assembled it and installed.
The motor is now rated to handle 1000 HP. We are hoping to get in the 600 range. Crankshaft HP. I think it'll do it.
It's up and running with a temporary tune. Runs really nice. Very happy with how it turned out. Buuuut, still waiting on Livernois to get me in to fine tune it and run on the dyno.
Funny. I've only been able to drive it a few times. My wife has commandeered it. She's been driving it pretty much every day :(

[_Chigga]

Originally Posted by Gasoholic

Ended up having Livernois put me together an LS3 short block and set of heads. Then I assembled it and installed.
The motor is now rated to handle 1000 HP. We are hoping to get in the 600 range. Crankshaft HP. I think it'll do it.
It's up and running with a temporary tune. Runs really nice. Very happy with how it turned out. Buuuut, still waiting on Livernois to get me in to fine tune it and run on the dyno.
Funny. I've only been able to drive it a few times. My wife has commandeered it. She's been driving it pretty much every day :(

ahh Ive got a LS7 and its tranny laying around, kinda getting some ideas in.

[christianchevell]

LOL...

[Camaroking98]

Sorry, I know this thread is a little dated...but I was wondering two things: Could I just connect an LS7/505 to my 2010 6 speed auto trans? And two, how much would installation and everything else cost? I know the engine itself is 10-11k.