Catastrophic engine failure!!!!

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Eli

not to argue semantics but it may be personally catastrophic for you, but i dont think that is what most wold call a catastrophic engine failure. I need flying metal chuncks and holes in blocks or broken rods or the like to call it catastrophic

To me, it means that it went through the chain of events that break more than just one part. Like spring breaks, valve drops, piston head hits valve, piston heads breaks, pieces fall, connecting rod falls, gets punched through the block, ............ uh, ya........... catastrophic.

But I agree with him. If I gotta have my engine torn apart unexpectedly............. catastrophic when my wife finds out.

Originally Posted by Russell James

If you don't trust what the shop is telling you, why is it there?

Have them show you where the shavings came from, the condition of the rod and main bearings, cut the oil filter open, perform a leakdown test...

Looking at the bearings while the pan is off, a leak down test, the filter media... will help determine how much engine damage is there.

Valve covers and front timing covers should be off looking the condition of the timing gear set, valve springs, rockers, pushrods...

Diagnose where the shavings came from, how much is damaged... and go from there.

Agree with this post 100%.

A compression and a leakdown test can be done in the driveway in an hour and tell you 90% of your engines health. Find where the shavings have come from. Hopefully just from the oil pump it's self.

If they didn't advise you to put an aftermarket pump in it they are shotty imo. But only my opinion.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by rberns

Sorry to jack your thread, but does anybody know the name of the hood Spacecowby has or where to order one?

It's the RK sport hood. Same one that Mindz has on Blue Rush.

Found his thread on the hood.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97150

[Rhino79]

The stock pump is more than sufficient.
What color are the shavings? Silver or copper?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Rhino79

The stock pump is more than sufficient.
What color are the shavings? Silver or copper?

There are a number of members here who would disagree with first hand experience.

I understand that failure can happen with anything but we've seen a number of stock pumps fail after a cam swap. I can't recall a failure in stock form.

Maybe a coincidence but why not swap it out while it's open?

[Rhino79]

There is nothing to fail on the pump besides the oil pressure relief and it may stick even in stock form. The LS3 uses the same oil pump as the truck engines. The l99 is different due to afm/vvt oiling demands, and the dry sump pumps are different. I have done tons of cam swaps and never had any issue with the oil pump. Pump failure is not the result of a cam swap. Now if people aren't clean when tear down/reassemble some debris may enter the oil system and cause the relief valve to stick. If I'm not mistaken even lingenfelter uses the stock pump on their shortblocks. And on just a cam swap, the oil pump doesn't have to even come off, pan doesn't have to be dropped either.

[Rhino79]

I work at a dealership and see plenty of stock pumps fail on stock apps.....as a matter of fact.....

Service Information



Document ID: 2754883
#PIP4158D: Low Oil Pump Pressure Due To Sticking Oil Pressure Relief Valve - (Jan 18, 2012)

Subject:Low Oil Pump Pressure Due To Sticking Oil Pressure Relief Valve

Models:2008 - 2009 Buick Lacrosse, Allure (Canada Only)
2007 - 2012 Cadillac CTS-V, Escalade
2007 - 2012 Chevrolet Avalanche, Corvette, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe
2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
2007 - 2009 Chevrolet Impala SS, Trail Blazer
2009 - 2012 Chevrolet Colorado
2007 - 2012 GMC Envoy, Sierra, Yukon
2009 - 2012 GMC Canyon
2008 - 2010 Hummer H2
2008 - 2010 H3 Alpha
2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
2008 - 2010 Pontiac G8 GT
2007 - 2009 Saab 97x
With the Following Aluminum V8 Engine RPOs:
L76, L77, L92, L94, L99, L9H, LC9, LH6, LH8, LH9, LS2, LS3, LS4, LS7, LS9, LSA, LZ1

This PI was superseded to update model and model years. Please discard PIP4158C.The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:


Some customers may complain of low oil pressure, no oil pressure, and/or engine noise, which may be the result of a sticking oil pump pressure relief valve. In some instances, this may occur intermittently if the valve frees up when the engine cools down.
Recommendation/Instructions:


If SI diagnosis isolates low mechanical oil pressure at the oil filter housing and oil pressure sensor, replace the oil pump, flush the oil cooler lines (if equipped),
Clean the inside of the oil pan, change the oil and filter, and re-evaluate the concern.
Notice: If an engine noise is noticed after replacing the oil pump, follow the SI diagnosis and repair the engine as necessary.
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
© 2012 General Motors. All rights reserved.

[Coyotekiller]

His relief valve didn't fail...

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Rhino79

There is nothing to fail on the pump besides the oil pressure relief and it may stick even in stock form. The LS3 uses the same oil pump as the truck engines. The l99 is different due to afm/vvt oiling demands, and the dry sump pumps are different. I have done tons of cam swaps and never had any issue with the oil pump. Pump failure is not the result of a cam swap. Now if people aren't clean when tear down/reassemble some debris may enter the oil system and cause the relief valve to stick. If I'm not mistaken even lingenfelter uses the stock pump on their shortblocks. And on just a cam swap, the oil pump doesn't have to even come off, pan doesn't have to be dropped either.

Fair enough.

Mine is an L99 and I did the LS3 conversion with upgraded springs so the heads had to come off. I opted for the piece of mind of a Melling high volume.

There are those who believe that the high volume pumps are not good due to a possible depleting of the pan at times. I don't know.

[Rhino79]

Heck some aftermarket cranks like the callies have larger oil passages and pressure can be lower than stock on a fresh built engine.

[Rhino79]

Originally Posted by Coyotekiller

His relief valve didn't fail...

what failed?

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by PQ

There are a number of members here who would disagree with first hand experience.

I understand that failure can happen with anything but we've seen a number of stock pumps fail after a cam swap. I can't recall a failure in stock form.

Maybe a coincidence but why not swap it out while it's open?

see this is the biggest problem with the forums. you wanna compare how many stock pumps, with cammed/stock are doing fine everyday. compared to how many fail? the forums mostly reports failures. but doesn't really report daily successful builds. if that makes sense.

i am willing to bet more cammed/tuned camaros use stock oil pumps over after market. and most do not have problems.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

see this is the biggest problem with the forums. you wanna compare how many stock pumps, with cammed/stock are doing fine everyday. compared to how many fail? the forums mostly reports failures. but doesn't really report daily successful builds. if that makes sense.

i am willing to bet more cammed/tuned camaros use stock oil pumps over after market. and most do not have problems.

it makes perfect sense.

But usually you hear about the failures. Especially when it's a stock failure. I am only pointing out that of the oil pump failures I recall they have been on cammed and/or blown cars with stock pumps. I can't recall a failure of a aftermarket pump though.

Again, could be just chance. Still waiting to see if Kyles was his pump that failed when his oil pressure went to zero and his is a stock pump as well.

You could very well be right. But I'd prefer the piece of mind.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by PQ

it makes perfect sense.

But usually you hear about the failures. Especially when it's a stock failure. I am only pointing out that of the oil pump failures I recall they have been on cammed and/or blown cars with stock pumps. I can't recall a failure of a aftermarket pump though.

Again, could be just chance. Still waiting to see if Kyles was his pump that failed when his oil pressure went to zero and his is a stock pump as well.

You could very well be right. But I'd prefer the piece of mind.

well non cammed reports have been reported, its simply a fact. again camming a camaro should not cause a failure. if it people are getting failures after cam swaps, then it has to be the cam or people not handling them right. if that was the case.

another point. comparing a GM OEM pump to a after market pump is not a good comparison in terms on rates.

Think how many LS pumps are out, and being used. compared to aftermarket. you WILL see more failures with stock parts over any aftermarket part. and there are a lot of failures not reported on forums also.

personally i have faith in GM. but if my pump ever goes. last GM car i will ever buy and i am making a big purchase in either a GTR or Z06 within 3 years. but GM says the pump is good, and so do many.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

well non cammed reports have been reported, its simply a fact. again camming a camaro should not cause a failure. if it people are getting failures after cam swaps, then it has to be the cam or people not handling them right. if that was the case.

another point. comparing a GM OEM pump to a after market pump is not a good comparison in terms on rates.

Think how many LS pumps are out, and being used. compared to aftermarket. you WILL see more failures with stock parts over any aftermarket part. and there are a lot of failures not reported on forums also.

personally i have faith in GM. but if my pump ever goes. last GM car i will ever buy. but GM says the pump is good, and so do many.

Yup. Another good point. But you have way more faith in factory parts than I do. I have faith in factory engineering as a whole. But parts? No way. If I could afford and could get every part on my car aftermarket I would. The factory will have better mechanical parts every once in a while but the VAST majority of the time the aftermarket will be much better. And not just GM but all of them. I've dealt with it all my life. And while I'm only 42 years old I have seen it and experienced it many many many times.

The odd thing about it is that most of the time the aftermarket is not only better but CHEAPER in cost.

I did preface this with 'Just my opinion'.

More power and more air pass through doesn't really mean the need for more oil flow. The rpms are the same so I really don't know that there is a benefit other than just integrity but it's enough for me.