Buy a spare PCM?

[Rage]

With all the controversy about tuning voiding warranties.....is it possible to remove your original PCM and stock tune, replace with another OEM PCM, tune the hell out of it, and throw the stock back in should you need warranty work? What could a PCM cost....$500-$600? Or is this just a dumb idea? I just like the idea of $500 buying my freedom from GM dropping the hammer on me when it comes to warranties!

[gmpartsman00]

Good question

[Rogue Leader]

Only problem with that idea, mileage in the PCM won't match mileage for the BCM and other systems. They will know you replaced it.

[Rage]

Ahhhh, damn BCM. Anyone else with input on BCM? Could we find a work around?

[ffrcobra_65]

I assuming you are thinking this route because you want after-market tune to sync with the mods you plan to do on the car. Let's just say you were able to get an extra PCM, installed it, tune it for the mods, your car needs major work, you wanna cheat the dealer so you slap the orig PCM back on, you realize that you will also need to reverse the major mods you did, correct? If you put LTs, you'll have to remove that, you put a cam, you remove that, etc. etc. etc. all that really worth scamming the dealer? Keep in mind, KARMA sucks so be prepared for it to bite you in the future.

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

I assuming you are thinking this route because you want after-market tune to sync with the mods you plan to do on the car. Let's just say you were able to get an extra PCM, installed it, tune it for the mods, your car needs major work, you wanna cheat the dealer so you slap the orig PCM back on, you realize that you will also need to reverse the major mods you did, correct? If you put LTs, you'll have to remove that, you put a cam, you remove that, etc. etc. etc. all that really worth scamming the dealer? Keep in mind, KARMA sucks so be prepared for it to bite you in the future.

scamming the dealer? what if the damage is non related? to the mods?

[bigsquirrel]

Originally Posted by King Sun

scamming the dealer? what if the damage is non related? to the mods?

Then no worries, a good dealer will cover it.

[SlingShot]

It was my understanding you can't just get one. They are only available through the dealer and GM is very tight with them. Also I read there is the VIN ID thing that is embedded in them as well ...

[mercedestech]

The service manager at my dealer actually suggested I do this before tuning. He said to get a spare pcm from GM and have it programmed by them for my car. Put my original on the shelf somewhere, and have any tuning done to the spare that would now be installed in the car. If there is ever a drivetrain issue that required them to send the cvn coding data to gm for review, the original pcm could be reinstalled long enough to send the required data. He is a great supporter of modding the 5th gen, and this is his suggestion to get around the gm warranty issues aftermarket tunes can cause. He has a heavily modded 4th gen, and has several friends with modded 5th gens that have taken this approach.

The guys on this forum that are under the impression that the stock tune can just be reloaded are incorrect....the data sent from the pcm contains cvn information from the last 10 software changes....warranty will want dealership supporting repairs to coinside with any software changes the pcm might show.....even if it comes in with the stock tune for repair.

As far as mileage...all of the modules in the car that store mileage will adapt the highest mileage...no matter what. So if the bcm and cluster have 20,000 miles stored in them, and the pcm only has 5,000....once connected for a few minutes, the pcm will automatically adapt to the 20,000. This keeps people from changing 1 or 2 control units to try and lower the mileage on their cars. (swapping clusters from a lower mileage car etc...) The VIN number is also stored in these control units...as well as a couple others to help prevent mileage tampering.

[alfie43]

Originally Posted by Rage

With all the controversy about tuning voiding warranties.....is it possible to remove your original PCM and stock tune, replace with another OEM PCM, tune the hell out of it, and throw the stock back in should you need warranty work? What could a PCM cost....$500-$600? Or is this just a dumb idea? I just like the idea of $500 buying my freedom from GM dropping the hammer on me when it comes to warranties!

Don't embarrass yourself by publicly asking how to cheat and commit fraud. If you want to mod your car do so with the understanding that "If you play, you may have to pay". GM and the dealer agreed to warranty your car if you maintain and service the vehicle as spelled out in your "contract". If your want a warranty, keep your end of the agreement.

Before I supercharged and tuned my car, I had "the conversation" with my service manager. We agreed that if I come in with a issue that is not related to the increased HP output, they are going to fix the car ubder warranty, i.e., if I have an oil leak or power window problem, they will cover the repair, but if I come in with a burned out clutch or broken output shaft on the transmission....I pay the piper.

Go ahead, tune and mod your car. If you don't abuse it, you shouldn't have to worry. If you abuse and beat on it...well, then you reap what you sow.

Alfie

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Rage

With all the controversy about tuning voiding warranties.....is it possible to remove your original PCM and stock tune, replace with another OEM PCM, tune the hell out of it, and throw the stock back in should you need warranty work? What could a PCM cost....$500-$600? Or is this just a dumb idea? I just like the idea of $500 buying my freedom from GM dropping the hammer on me when it comes to warranties!

Unfortunately you can't buy them. They are only available from a GM dealer and also requires that the old ECM to be sent back to GM before the new ECM will be received. The ECM also comes preprogrammed with your vin (which you nor your dealer has the ability to overwrite) so you can't use a ECM from a wrecked Camaro.

[KARR48]

Originally Posted by alfie43

Don't embarrass your self here by publicly asking how to cheat and commit fraud. If you want to mod your car do so with the understanding that "if you play, you may have to pay". GM and the dealer agreed to warranty your car if you maintain and service the vehicle as spelled out in your "contract". If your want a warranty, keep your end of the agreement.

Before I supercharged and tuned my car, I had "the conversation" with my service manager. We agreed that if I come in with a issue that is not related to the increased HP output, they are going to warranty the car, i.e., if I have an oil leak or power window problem, they will cover the repair, but if I come in with a blown clutch or broken output shaft on the transmission... well you get the idea.

Go ahead, tune and mod your car. If you don't abuse it, you shouldn't have to worry. If abuse and beat on it...well, then you reap what you sow.

GM will warranty what they design and build, not your design and build. You will have to warranty that.

[mercedestech]

Originally Posted by alfie43

Don't embarrass your self here by publicly asking how to cheat and commit fraud. If you want to mod your car do so with the understanding that "if you play, you may have to pay". GM and the dealer agreed to warranty your car if you maintain and service the vehicle as spelled out in your "contract". If your want a warranty, keep your end of the agreement.

Before I supercharged and tuned my car, I had "the conversation" with my service manager. We agreed that if I come in with a issue that is not related to the increased HP output, they are going to warranty the car, i.e., if I have an oil leak or power window problem, they will cover the repair, but if I come in with a blown clutch or broken output shaft on the transmission... well you get the idea.

Go ahead, tune and mod your car. If you don't abuse it, you shouldn't have to worry. If abuse and beat on it...well, then you reap what you sow.

Alfie

I totally agree....I am leaning towards the much milder route of just a tune with headers...full exhaust..and cai. A cam may come later, but my main concern was after tuning for simple mods such as these...would I be voiding my warranty? My dealers answer was yes...if the repair requires sending cvn coding info to gm. Any internal engine, transmission, or rearend failure requires this information. Even though my mods will be minimal, and should in no way harm the driveline, if anything this major breaks and its been tuned, I'm s.o.l. His spare pcm idea was my only insurance against this.

I don't think minor mods such as these should void anything. If I was running turbos, nitrous, superchargers etcc...then I would not expect a warranty of anykind and the "pay to play" mentality is perfectlly acceptable. But I do not agree with 40-50hp worth of bolt ons with a tune completely leaving you without a driveline warranty. I only have 4k miles on my 2ss/rs, and might forgoe the tune until I'm sure the driveline is sound and without any issues (maybe the 10-12k mark)...that way I don't have to worry about any of this. If something was going to break due to manufacturer defects...I suspect it would do it before then.

I'm not looking for my warranty to cover damage from modifications, but don't want to pay for any defects that pop up after I have tuned that would have failed regardless of whether it was tuned or not...does that make sense?

[mercedestech]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

Unfortunately you can't buy them. They are only available from a GM dealer and also requires that the old ECM to be sent back to GM before the new ECM will be received. The ECM also comes preprogrammed with your vin (which you nor your dealer has the ability to overwrite) so you can't use a ECM from a wrecked Camaro.

There is a core charge that you can pay to keep your original....they only do this so they can be remanufactured. Your correct that a PCM from a wrecked camaro will not work because it has been rigidly assigned to a VIN and can not be overwritten at the dealer level, but the new units sent to the dealer are not pre programmed. They can be installed in any vehcile that uses that particular pcm part number....not just camaro's. The PCM's are installed...programmed with your VIN and CVN coded at the dealer. Once this is done, it will only work in your car...but this does not keep the original pcm from working if reinstalled.