JRE "Rough Idle Blower Cam" - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

shines · 09-09-2011, 09:36 PM

Guys, I bought this cam and had it sent to Livernois and installed in my 419 stroker. I've since installed the engine and have driven the car about 200 miles.

While the idle sound of the engine is nice, it doesn't feel as strong as my LS3 did, which had a different blower cam. It was street tuned, so I have not had it on the dyno yet to see the actual numbers. But the LS3 put down 641rwhp and 548rwt; this 419 feels like it's about 600rwhp.

The 419 has 9.7:1 compression and the JRE cam and my Whipple blower has the same pulley; the tune is similar in terms of timing aggressiveness and A/F ratios.

Looking at the spec car on the JRE cam I see it has something like 224/236 duration but only a 114 LSA. My LS3 blower cam had similar durations, but a 117 LSA.

So, I'm wondering if the narrower LSA on the JRE cam is reducing the effectiveness of my blower.

Thoughts?

Pollock · 09-09-2011, 10:11 PM

Sounds like you are lacking a good dyno tune.

Juiced1 · 09-09-2011, 10:34 PM

Adding cubes to a blown vehicle doesn't always result in more power, just more efficient. You added cubes but lost compression and your tune is for another motor. Being a bigger motor with lower compression its time to turn up the boost some and get a new dyno tune. The LSA change in the cam will just raise your power band level. So you'll be spinning the motor a little higher to reach peak numbers.

UNRIVALED SS · 09-10-2011, 01:30 AM

You had X amount of boost pushing into 376 inches.
Now you have x amount of boost pushing into 418 inches.
Also you are about a point down on compression, which you should be on a FI motor.
Just spin the whipple a little faster, which will return your boost preasure.
Retune. I`m confident JRE`s cam is great.

HufferSS · 09-10-2011, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNRIVALED SS

You had X amount of boost pushing into 376 inches.
Now you have x amount of boost pushing into 418 inches.
Also you are about a point down on compression, which you should be on a FI motor.
Just spin the whipple a little faster, which will return your boost preasure.
Retune. I`m confident JRE`s cam is great.

This. You are probably down at least a point or two on boost given the bigger cubes and different CAM and your tune isn't even for this combo. Get it dyno tuned and put a boost gauge on it so you know what you are pushing for boost and then come talk to us. Edit: Get it to a dyno for a tune...right after you pulley down a bit.

JANNETTYRACING · 09-10-2011, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shines

Guys, I bought this cam and had it sent to Livernois and installed in my 419 stroker. I've since installed the engine and have driven the car about 200 miles.

While the idle sound of the engine is nice, it doesn't feel as strong as my LS3 did, which had a different blower cam. It was street tuned, so I have not had it on the dyno yet to see the actual numbers. But the LS3 put down 641rwhp and 548rwt; this 419 feels like it's about 600rwhp.

The 419 has 9.7:1 compression and the JRE cam and my Whipple blower has the same pulley; the tune is similar in terms of timing aggressiveness and A/F ratios.

Looking at the spec car on the JRE cam I see it has something like 224/236 duration but only a 114 LSA. My LS3 blower cam had similar durations, but a 117 LSA.

So, I'm wondering if the narrower LSA on the JRE cam is reducing the effectiveness of my blower.

Thoughts?

It is the Full Point of compression that you gave up that makes less power, you must speed up the blower now to get back what you lost in compression.

You Also NEED an Entirely Different TIMING MAP.

A stock compression 376 will feel a whole lot stronger than a 9.7:1 416 all day long.

The Idea of lower compression is so you can replace it with BOOST on pump gas.

You are welcome to call me to discuss your build and what to expect.

Ted.

Chris@Livernois · 09-10-2011, 08:23 AM

What everyone is saying in this thread is correct about being more efficient and needing to pulley down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HufferSS

I can't believe Livernois would let that car out of their shop without it going on a dyno for a tune????

The car was never at our shop. We built the shortblock and the customer installed it or had it installed.

Thank you,

Rick

HufferSS · 09-10-2011, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick@Livernois

What everyone is saying in this thread is correct about being more efficient and needing to pulley down.

The car was never at our shop. We built the shortblock and the customer installed it or had it installed.

Thank you,

Rick

That makes more sense.

Juiced1 · 09-10-2011, 08:36 AM

Well I think this problem is solved. Now lets go grab some beers and pat ourselves on the back.

shines · 09-10-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

It is the Full Point of compression that you gave up that makes less power, you must speed up the blower now to get back what you lost in compression.

You Also NEED an Entirely Different TIMING MAP.

A stock compression 376 will feel a whole lot stronger than a 9.7:1 416 all day long.

The Idea of lower compression is so you can replace it with BOOST on pump gas.

You are welcome to call me to discuss your build and what to expect.

Ted.

Last night I stepped the pulley down to 3.65" and adjusted the A/F to maintain similar A/F ratios at partial and full throttle. The 3.65" pulley increased the peak boost to 8.5psi. Now It feels about the same as my old LS3. I've not touched the spark mapping at all, I know it'll need a bit more timing advance given the longer stroke.

I'd love to talk to you Ted, but the only time I get to "play" with this stuff is when your shop is closed.

As for the dyno tune; earlier this year I decided to start tuning myself after dropping close to $5K in dyno tunes the year prior. $700 for HP Tuners and a wide band, $500 for a Tuning School material and lots of reading! So, I'm using my butt dyno!

JANNETTYRACING · 09-10-2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shines

Last night I stepped the pulley down to 3.65" and adjusted the A/F to maintain similar A/F ratios at partial and full throttle. The 3.65" pulley increased the peak boost to 8.5psi. Now It feels about the same as my old LS3. I've not touched the spark mapping at all, I know it'll need a bit more timing advance given the longer stroke.

I'd love to talk to you Ted, but the only time I get to "play" with this stuff is when your shop is closed.

As for the dyno tune; earlier this year I decided to start tuning myself after dropping close to $5K in dyno tunes the year prior. $700 for HP Tuners and a wide band, $500 for a Tuning School material and lots of reading! So, I'm using my butt dyno!

You will need to run about 2 psi More boost than you ran on the 376 to exceed the power of the 376 with the low compression 416.

And a bunch more timing in the OFF Boost Regions of the timing Map.

09-09-2011, 09:36 PM	#1
shines Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: USA Posts: 328	JRE "Rough Idle Blower Cam" Guys, I bought this cam and had it sent to Livernois and installed in my 419 stroker. I've since installed the engine and have driven the car about 200 miles. While the idle sound of the engine is nice, it doesn't feel as strong as my LS3 did, which had a different blower cam. It was street tuned, so I have not had it on the dyno yet to see the actual numbers. But the LS3 put down 641rwhp and 548rwt; this 419 feels like it's about 600rwhp. The 419 has 9.7:1 compression and the JRE cam and my Whipple blower has the same pulley; the tune is similar in terms of timing aggressiveness and A/F ratios. Looking at the spec car on the JRE cam I see it has something like 224/236 duration but only a 114 LSA. My LS3 blower cam had similar durations, but a 117 LSA. So, I'm wondering if the narrower LSA on the JRE cam is reducing the effectiveness of my blower. Thoughts?

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09-09-2011, 10:11 PM	#2
Pollock LT4 M6 Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Bloomington, IN Posts: 1,249	Sounds like you are lacking a good dyno tune.

09-09-2011, 10:34 PM	#3
Juiced1 Account Suspended Drives: 2012 2SS CAMARO 45th Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: St. Charles, IL Posts: 18,663	Adding cubes to a blown vehicle doesn't always result in more power, just more efficient. You added cubes but lost compression and your tune is for another motor. Being a bigger motor with lower compression its time to turn up the boost some and get a new dyno tune. The LSA change in the cam will just raise your power band level. So you'll be spinning the motor a little higher to reach peak numbers.

09-10-2011, 01:30 AM	#4
UNRIVALED SS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: El Paso Posts: 704 View My Garage	You had X amount of boost pushing into 376 inches. Now you have x amount of boost pushing into 418 inches. Also you are about a point down on compression, which you should be on a FI motor. Just spin the whipple a little faster, which will return your boost preasure. Retune. I`m confident JRE`s cam is great.

09-10-2011, 08:36 AM	#9
Juiced1 Account Suspended Drives: 2012 2SS CAMARO 45th Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: St. Charles, IL Posts: 18,663	Well I think this problem is solved. Now lets go grab some beers and pat ourselves on the back.