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Old 11-21-2011, 11:11 PM   #1443
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
I'm thinking they're just using the name for a drag car, and not bringing back the old COPO ordering system.
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Old 11-21-2011, 11:28 PM   #1444
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Originally Posted by calbert1999 View Post
Imagine that, all these many years driving without MR. How did we survive this long without it? LOL
Definately, I prefer better hardware than fancy software that's not need 99.9% of the time.
Agreed. I realy don't need algorythyms and electronics to tell me how to drive.
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Originally Posted by TLSTWIN View Post
Might as well go back to a solid axle and leaf springs too, crank up windows, manual locks, no AC/heat, etc.... I am sure they will sell all of 5 of them......

Sorry, but that is what the COPO or the body in White was for. They have to appeal to where most of the sales will come from... people want creature comforts..... Fbodfather stated before, to put that many variations on the assembly line now would create a higher priced vehicle for many reasons... slowed production, more inventory, more line changes, etc
Disagree. The Z28 is ia a legendary name and should be feared. Knock down, drag out brawler. Ladies and non performance enthusiasts who need assistance in performance management NEED the electronics IE PTM< and alike to keep the car stable>. I don't. Make it REAL, make it RAW, and make it it a no holds barred racer. COPO is for 1320', make it for the steet as such. Shoot, Pete and Lingenfelter are doing it now, make a version based off their R&D and tame it down a tad to meet the production level market need. I don't need cup holders, power windows, door locks thank you as you suggested, laugh if you will, but back in the day I didn't,<we get it that certain creature comforts must be included> so it's nothing for me to not have it now. Give me a 10,000 watt stereio like Fbodfather said on top of all the performance and I'll be happier than a pig in s-it.!!!! Low rider, big rubber, bone jarring suspension, cold air sucking N/A LS7, with aero package, and gearing to match...that's Camaro Z28 Nirvana!
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:53 AM   #1445
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
A
Disagree. The Z28 is ia a legendary name and should be feared. Knock down, drag out brawler. Ladies and non performance enthusiasts who need assistance in performance management NEED the electronics IE PTM< and alike to keep the car stable>. I don't. Make it REAL, make it RAW, and make it it a no holds barred racer. COPO is for 1320', make it for the steet as such. Shoot, Pete and Lingenfelter are doing it now, make a version based off their R&D and tame it down a tad to meet the production level market need. I don't need cup holders, power windows, door locks thank you as you suggested, laugh if you will, but back in the day I didn't,<we get it that certain creature comforts must be included> so it's nothing for me to not have it now. Give me a 10,000 watt stereio like Fbodfather said on top of all the performance and I'll be happier than a pig in s-it.!!!! Low rider, big rubber, bone jarring suspension, cold air sucking N/A LS7, with aero package, and gearing to match...that's Camaro Z28 Nirvana!
You say you disagree, but you didn't state anything that you disagreed with.....lol... You are asking for a car that requires complete retooling of the lines to complete. ..... again, what you are asking for is being introduced as the COPO now..... they will not sell enough of the specifics you are asking for.... NO ONE wants a harsh ride..... the only reason people had a harsh ride back in the day is because Pedders wasn't around to give them the best of both worlds... back then it was either good launch set up or nice ride.

I too am kinda wanting something between the 2SS and the ZL1, but what you are asking for ain't gonna happen...... no reason for GM to retool for a few people...
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:04 AM   #1446
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Originally Posted by TLSTWIN View Post
Might as well go back to a solid axle and leaf springs too, crank up windows, manual locks, no AC/heat, etc.... I am sure they will sell all of 5 of them......

Sorry, but that is what the COPO or the body in White was for. They have to appeal to where most of the sales will come from... people want creature comforts..... Fbodfather stated before, to put that many variations on the assembly line now would create a higher priced vehicle for many reasons... slowed production, more inventory, more line changes, etc
Not trying to draw flak here or be sarcastic as I took your response, just trying to discuss. What is the COPO or body in white as you stated for? It's a concept, and I am not sure exactly what is under the body? Also, reiterating the well known and previously discussed issues about assembly lines, complicating matters, and what Fbodfather said adds nothing to what we are talking about. I get that. We all know that already. Simply, I would suggest we are looking for an upgrade option to the base model. Like the 302R for example. You pay more for the option, they install it. A suspension package over and above that of the creature comfort level base model. That's not complicating anything, is it? They did it for years..and why not an engine upgrade option to go with the lowered stiffened suspension? That too was also done for years. The pricing will reflect the option package of course, but not due to slowed production, increased inventory, line charges etc...we are not trying to reinvent the wheel here I don't think. Make the base Z28 with the creature comforts that people want as you stated, then have a performance level option above that. That is not complicated at all. The base model will be more affordable for the wider audience, but the true performance enthusiast would be willing to pay for the enhanced high performance gear factory installed. I like others don't want to do mods and upgrade beyond what we should be able to get off the assembly line. The ZL1, as grand as she is, has too mnay bells and whistles, and fits too wide an audience. What suggestions would you make to bring this Z28 track pack project to the table?
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:14 AM   #1447
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Folks, I'm goin' out on a limb on this one...and even after a really good bout of the flu, I'm still bendin' the HELL out this particular limb...and say that, since the 1LE showed up with MRC, THAT is where the Team's mind-set is. Otherwise, we'd have seen an updated iteration of last year's SSX...

Think about it...1LE...an addendum intended "for sporting purposes"...beyond mere Camaro abilities. However, this time around, no deletes. And since it was a "show car", it featured fancy threads...that DON'T fit with its "for sporting purposes" intent. "Crossed signals"...but she sure looked "purdy" on the show floor, huh?!

OR...

Does the Team STILL not fully comprehend this "naming" thing?

"Sacrilege!!" the faithful scream. "How can you say such a thing, ol' 'one-track mind'?!"

COPO: A limited-availability, limited-production 427 Camaro, one year only. 425 hp for the price of an SS396-375 hp, but minus all the geegaws and flashing neon. Automatic or 4-speed. Any non-conflicting RPOs available. "Have it your way...", if you could find one, or if you can find a dealer interested enough to sell you one.

HAVE WE YET SEEN ONE? Yes...SEMA '08, properly identified, but with a flat-black hood...

ZL1: A Corvette engine option available in a Camaro...for Corvette+ money...built/intended for ONE THING ONLY...1/4-mile trips to the "WIN" window... And built/intended to be extremely low-volume...50, minumum, and who cares, after that...and, therefore, priced accordingly...

HAVE WE YET SEEN ONE? Yes...SEMA '11, only it was called COPO...for the 2nd time...

Z/28: Intended to leap over moderately-sized buildings (NOT skyscrapers) in a single bound, and get the hell outa Dodge...or Plymouth...or Pontiac...or Lincoln...around corners and down the streets (of Willow) about as good as any 4-seater has any right to! Stick-only. "Drivers" only. Racy stripes that say, "Clear the TRACK!" Peaky. A lil highstrung (kinda like this writer...). Sometimes insulting but, if so, it was likely your own fault. Generally enjoyable. Never dull. Worth the ride! (OK, dummy, get back to talkin' 'bout the CAR!). Rewarding of a sure hand. (Really?!) More abilities that your typical SS (now we're gettin' somewhere...).

HAVE WE SEEN ONE? Kinda-sorta...but that still depends on who's answerin' the question... Since I asked the question, I'll answer it: '08 COPO + (1LE - Fancy Duds). Pedders instead of MR? Fine with me...

"So, bright guy, what should the ZL1 have been named, since you're the authority on 'heritage'?"

I'm not sure you can handle the "truth"...

"Try me, Mr. Nicholson!"

I-ROCK! Except the gold chain's missin'...

Remember when I said "sometimes insulting, but never dull"?!...

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 11-22-2011 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 11-22-2011, 10:01 AM   #1448
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Originally Posted by TLSTWIN View Post
...again, what you are asking for is being introduced as the COPO now.....
No, no it's not. I reviewed the COPO thread and that car has a full tube frame and is specificaly designed and engineered for NHRA stock eliminator racing. A car meant only for the quarter mile is not what I seek. One designed to be pushed hard on the open road is.
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Old 11-22-2011, 10:07 AM   #1449
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
No, no it's not. I reviewed the COPO thread and that car has a full tube frame and is specificaly designed and engineered for NHRA stock eliminator racing. A car meant only for the quarter mile is not what I seek. One designed to be pushed hard on the open road is.
Ya, no flak meant...

I just didn't understand what you were meaning by being able to be pushed on the open road, but yet being basic.... You have to remember that the old cars didn't have the power we have now AND where able to be pushed like we do now.... we pushed those old cars to THEIR limits, now we push the newer cars to OUR limits most of the time..... That is why it was so fun then, we wanted more out of the car because we weren't at our comfort limits..... NOW, I know for me... I am trying to push my car to the limits of just below 10/10.

My suggestion would involve the dealer installed options, which I know you didn't really want.... I think we are on the same page.... start with a 1ss base with the option of Supercars (PEDDERS COILOVERS), differential change options, brake upgrade, and motor options..... But those have to be a dealer option addition now.... they can't/wont do that on the assembly line anymore. that is why I brought up the assembly line issues...... The days of ordering the car EXACTLY the way we want off the assembly line are over, no matter who the manufacture.
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Old 11-22-2011, 10:11 AM   #1450
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Folks, I'm goin' out on a limb on this one...and even after a really good bout of the flu, I'm still bendin' the HELL out this particular limb...and say that, since the 1LE showed up with MRC, THAT is where the Team's mind-set is. Otherwise, we'd have seen an updated iteration of last year's SSX...

Think about it...1LE...an addendum intended "for sporting purposes"...beyond mere Camaro abilities. However, this time around, no deletes. And since it was a "show car", it featured fancy threads...that DON'T fit with its "for sporting purposes" intent. "Crossed signals"...but she sure looked "purdy" on the show floor, huh?!

OR...

Does the Team STILL not fully comprehend this "naming" thing?

"Sacrilege!!" the faithful scream. "How can you say such a thing, ol' 'one-track mind'?!"

COPO: A limited-availability, limited-production 427 Camaro, one year only. 425 hp for the price of an SS396-375 hp, but minus all the geegaws and flashing neon. Automatic or 4-speed. Any non-conflicting RPOs available. "Have it your way...", if you could find one, or if you can find a dealer interested enough to sell you one.

HAVE WE YET SEEN ONE? Yes...SEMA '08, properly identified, but with a flat-black hood...

ZL1: A Corvette engine option available in a Camaro...for Corvette+ money...built/intended for ONE THING ONLY...1/4-mile trips to the "WIN" window... And built/intended to be extremely low-volume...50, minumum, and who cares, after that...and, therefore, priced accordingly...

HAVE WE YET SEEN ONE? Yes...SEMA '11, only it was called COPO...for the 2nd time...

Z/28: Intended to leap over moderately-sized buildings (NOT skyscrapers) in a single bound, and get the hell outa Dodge...or Plymouth...or Pontiac...or Lincoln...around corners and down the streets (of Willow) about as good as any 4-seater has any right to! Stick-only. "Drivers" only. Racy stripes that say, "Clear the TRACK!" Peaky. A lil highstrung (kinda like this writer...). Sometimes insulting but, if so, it was likely your own fault. Generally enjoyable. Never dull. Worth the ride! (OK, dummy, get back to talkin' 'bout the CAR!). Rewarding of a sure hand. (Really?!) More abilities that your typical SS (now we're gettin' somewhere...).

HAVE WE SEEN ONE? Kinda-sorta...but that still depends on who's answerin' the question... Since I asked the question, I'll answer it: '08 COPO + (1LE - Fancy Duds). Pedders instead of MR? Fine with me...

"So, bright guy, what should the ZL1 have been named, since you're the authority on 'heritage'?"

I'm not sure you can handle the "truth"...

"Try me, Mr. Nicholson!"

I-ROCK! Except the gold chain's missin'...

Remember when I said "sometimes insulting, but never dull"?!...
You're posts could never be considered as dull......the 1LE as I see it from SEMA is a gussied up Camaro SS..."where's the beef"???
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:20 AM   #1451
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Perhaps I could inject the word "teasing" in place of "insulting"? Or...

I truly admire the Team's use of "heritage" terms. Good marketing. My only whine is with their "proper" application...without rewriting "history"... Some of us were actually "there"...'way back when...which may mean we are NOT "the intended"...
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:40 PM   #1452
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Folks, I'm goin' out on a limb on this one...and even after a really good bout of the flu, I'm still bendin' the HELL out this particular limb...and say that, since the 1LE showed up with MRC, THAT is where the Team's mind-set is.
MRC integrated with the ECM and BCM is going to be a GM hallmark for safety for years. Couple that with OnStar 911 services and GM feels it adds up to safer cars and a market advantage. Unless something changes, we will be seeing more and more of this. I don't think is was accident or happenstance tht the only suspensions shown for the Camaro at SEMA were MRC and Pedders. It was a statement.
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:01 PM   #1453
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I'm either clairvoyant...or Clarabell...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarabell_the_Clown

...or it's the Imodium...
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:33 PM   #1454
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:40 PM   #1455
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Sweet!

Now call Katech and ask 'em how much less than an entire ZL1 CAR this mini-mite might be...
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:42 PM   #1456
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Pete,
If we do get an MR suspension with the 1LE and Z28 what can we do Pedders-wise to enhance it?
Or, what we would have to do and spend to replace it with Pedders?
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