The Casual Modder's VARARAM Review

[rolnslo]

Originally Posted by TJ91

I understand what you guys are saying, I still have a few unanswered questions that never get answered. I dont mind having somewhat of a beta product, as longas they keep sending me the updated parts. Such as my new belly intake which will ship out tomorrow.
Their CS is great and it really is assuring. If they had bad CS, I wouldve gotten my full refund and went injen. They have great service and the intake is good. I dont feel 25rwhp in all honesty which I think most would but well see



HERES THE MAIN QUESTION. SOMEONE FOR GOD SAKES PLEASE ANSWER THIS


How is it the prototype intake netted gains of 24rwhp and then 27rwhp when it was static. Thos pulls were done in 3rd. Now if that intake was revised to get better performance, shouldnt the new intakes still be dynoing atleast 24rwhp as opposed to none or few?

Originally Posted by E.T.

[/B] That's a good question. Another thing, and I don't know if it matters much, but I believe the hood was open when these 27 HP dyno pulls were done.

To me, this whole VR thing seems to be like a new religion. We're supposed to just have faith that it's doing what is claimed, but if we try to measure it, we're told not to expect impressive gains on a dyno. Sorry, but I like facts and data

I'm going to throw out the information that I can regarding the differences between the prototypes that were dyno'd and the final street-tuned version...

The dyno sessions were done for multiple reasons.

1. Figure out which parts combinations (size, spacing, location) made the ideal numbers on the dyno. Each variable affected MAF scaling, timing advance, and AFR.
2. Find the best combination of parts that kept the MAF scaling in the right range, brought in the most timing advance for as high as possible in the RPM range and kept the AFR within acceptable ranges.
3. Just see how far they could push the variables before the specs caused performance loss instead of gains.

Honestly, the intake combination that made the max numbers on the dyno was NOT the best intake when I drove it on the road. Did it perform well? Yes, I'd say a good 80% of the prototypes ran well. Could I push 1st thru 3rd gear from 1k-7k rpms and see no lulls in performance? No. There were noticeable dips in performance at various points in the RPM range. Comparing data logging between that intake on the dyno and that intake on the road showed that the MAF scaling was out of it's peak range, timing advance was being pulled a lot earlier in the RPM range and the AFR was off as well - running too lean.

The thing I think most everyone doesn't realize is that it really isn't just about getting the air into the engine. It's about making the computer adjust so that the engine is running at max performance levels. Sure, you have to feed it a larger amount of air but you've got to feed it in a way that the ECM adjusts what it is doing so that it is taking full advantage of the air. The basic premise of the design is similar to what you would have done on a pure-mechanical engine setup - you'd find the right combination of carb jets, intake manifold and distributor timing settings, but now you have to do so in a way that the ECM "sees" the changes and adjusts everything itself. Basically what Vararam did is "tune" the car by getting the ECM to respond to the intake design so that all of the ECM parameters aligned for better output of the engine.


Now, why is there a difference between the prototype and the final product when you put the two on a dyno?

The prototype on the dyno was really about getting all of the variable information details. It was set up for a loaded dyno run while sitting static without any type of "ram air" effect. On a dyno, even when doing a loaded run (not an inertial dyno run that most people end up getting), the prototype was designed to make the ECM do the tuning for those conditions. The final street-tuned version was adjusted, repeatly, to ensure that the ECM would build the same timing curve and hit the right MAF scaling range while actually moving down the road. Anyone that is familiar with dyno tuning knows that no matter what you set up a car for on the dyno, it doesn't always translate into the same thing on the street or at the track. The dyno is a convenient tuning tool, not the be-all end-all performance device everyone wants it to be. Vararam took the max performance numbers they hit with the prototype on the dyno and figured out the intake design combination that would run the same timing advance, MAF scaling, and AFR they saw on the dyno but do it in real-world conditions on the road under load. There are two peak performance designs - one for the dyno and one for the road. Both cause the ECM to adjust its tune in similar fashions but under different designs and usage conditions.

I've pushed Vararam for a "dyno king" version of the intake and they could do it but it won't replicate the performance once you put it on the street. Same goes with the "street king" version, it's great on the road but far from ideal on the dyno. The discussion always came down to the same basic question - Where do you drive and what matters most day in and day out? The obvious answer for most is simply...on the road, not the dyno.

[Infernoo]

Right on rolnslo. Every review that we've seen have all been more than positive once installed. I was going to spend $50 for 2 dyno runs this week then install my intake on Weds and drive it for a week and a half then pay $50 for 2 more dynos to compare the two. But now that I read more posts from people who do not have the intake I figured I'll save my money because no matter what anyone posts they will never be happy. I know I'll be happy with it so that's all that matters anyway.

[E.T.]

So track times are really the only thing that will show whether the "street king" version really delivers, or not.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by scrming

Don't doubt you... but you know how unreliable butt dynos are in this car... heck, i was fooled! The question is are you getting the claimed gains, or just a portion?

I agree with you there about the un-reliable butt dyno lol. Heck, the new in-cabin sound this thing makes is about enough to make a believer out of many. At this point I feel like I've gotten an improvement over the AirRaid, but maybe more-so at certain speeds rather than all speeds.

Time will tell, and this week it is 98 - 100 degrees all week. 115 if you include heat index...sure wish the temps would drop lol.

Originally Posted by E.T.

So track times are really the only thing that will show whether the "street king" version really delivers, or not.

I think so, and we only have one 1/4 mile run so far, and in my opinion it seemed to perform. A member took his car for a 1/4 mile run versus his stock run on a hotter day when everyone else was running around 3 tenths slower, he ran a 10th faster. Thats not too bad to me. Whether that would be any better than the Injen or whatever else...nobody can say forsure. We need more results, and I think we won't be seeing much until later this year.

[Maurdib]

Originally Posted by E.T.

So track times are really the only thing that will show whether the "street king" version really delivers, or not.

It's more then that, It's

1. Noticing the Car isn't lagging when the AC is on
2. Noticing almost zero Throttle response
3. Hitting the Gas and feeling your car continue to pull

[CamaroDreams07]

Originally Posted by NYJets77

Are you completely happy with your K&N Typhoon? Does it work perfectly and as advertised?

Not that this has anything whatsoever to do with this thread- but yes it does. I have never dynoed it but it comes with a horsepower guarantee in the box that if you do dyno it and it doesn't give you the advertised gain you get your money back. Not sure how many other brands do that- certainly a far cry from the "don't try to dyno this because it won't show the gains you're really getting," a la Vararam.

Jannetty showed all of the intakes at the time to be within a few HP of one another, so I got which one I liked the look of the best. If I had cared about the extra 3-5HP I would've gone with the Injen long tube.

Oh and I didn't need a mechanic's certification to install it.

But again, I'm not sure what this has to do with this thread.

[bmorecam]

So the dyno that you showed while the product was getting close with 25+ rwhp gain was for the prototype that ended up not running 100%? May I ask, what was the maf data, timing, AFR, etc, for the prototype run vs the final production run that you guys was shooting for?

[scrming]

Originally Posted by NYJets77

I can trust my own- we've been inseparable friends for 50 years! And I believe the science behind the VR intake is valid, so while the increase amount may be arguable, wouldn't you agree that there is an increase?

Besides, just because Airaid turned into a train wreck doesn't mean it will happen with every other vendor's initial product release...

There are probably some gains... but does it live up to the big claims? Most vendors will inflate their claims... Airaid was just one example... it served as a valuable lesson on why i like independent testing and take butt dynos with a huge grain of salt...

[rolnslo]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

So the dyno that you showed while the product was getting close with 25+ rwhp gain was for the prototype that ended up not running 100%? May I ask, what was the maf data, timing, AFR, etc, for the prototype run vs the final production run that you guys was shooting for?

The prototype used for the top dyno results was at nearly 100%, just not on the road. It was great on the dyno. On the road it was not horrible by any means, it was just not "perfect". There was obviously still a bit of room for improvement, hence the additional delays in going after those extra few gains in the production version.

The MAF scaling, timing and AFR for the dyno prototype and the final production run were targeting the same/similar numbers. To quote from the post from VR Tech:

The system was designed to run 22.5-24 deg of timing advance all the way to 6750 RPM and -1-2% fuel trim at WOT in 3rd gear with a specific MAF scaling rate and flow number.

I don't remember the specifics on the MAF scaling rate, nor the flow numbers.

[rolnslo]

Originally Posted by scrming

There are probably some gains... but does it live up to the big claims? Most vendors will inflate their claims... Airaid was just one example... it served as a valuable lesson on why i like independent testing and take butt dynos with a huge grain of salt...

There are two ways to validate the vendor's gain claims....put it on the dyno or put it on the track. Vararam could have easily pushed their dyno results a bit further and put that version on the market for everyone. People would flock to the dyno, see the gains and say "Look, this thing put up an extra 30rwhp over stock." Then they'd drive it on the road or track and not see all of the 30rwhp and gripe about how didn't seem to have that much of a gain on the road. But wait, you saw 30hp gains on the dyno, right?

Put the Vararam on someone's car that has a bunch of consistent 1/4 mile time under it already and re-run the car down the track in similar conditions. If you don't see the gains there, then you have every right to gripe about it. Until, then, I don't see how it is fair to knock a product that you've never driven with, nor seen consistent comparison track runs done for. Just saying....

[sales@vararam.com]

Vararam units are about "REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE"!!!! Dynos vary from shop to shop but a 1/4 mile is a 1/4 mile everywhere and ET's and Trap Speeds are a great indicator of driver and modification performance! Check out CorvetteForum and see the consistent 3 and 4 tenths reductions in ET and the 3-4MPH increase in trap speeds achieved with the C5 and C6 Vararam units! Same with our G8 and GTO units! YES - BUTT DYNOS are a good indicator - we all have one and have it dialed in to the car we are driving! Dynos are great tools and we do use them in the development of our units but in the end it is "What does it do on the road!!!!"
If your Vararam units does not perform to your satisfaction we will gladly take it back and pay the shipping! Who else does that!!!!???? Our units perform and will make your "BUTT DYNO" happy!! In the "END" isn't that most important!!!!
Thanks
Steve
Vararam

[67 GTO]

I'll be back at the track, just too damn hot here now. I have the ported TB on order but may wait to install wnen it get's here and run with the VR as is for a comparison just swapping the Injen with the VR.

I found no difference from 0-60 mph between the two with the same conditions. Still, the jury is out at the higher speeds. (60-100 mph).

[usa1camaro1969]

Mine'll be seeing track duty when the temps start coming back down. I ran it a few times last summer and a few more this spring. I really wanted it before the 100* temps set in.
so far all my times were with the K&N Typhoon and it seemed to perform well. By time we get track temps in the 50's they're closing the track down for the year.

[67 GTO]

Originally Posted by usa1camaro1969

Mine'll be seeing track duty when the temps start coming back down. I ran it a few times last summer and a few more this spring. I really wanted it before the 100* temps set in.
so far all my times were with the K&N Typhoon and it seemed to perform well. By time we get track temps in the 50's they're closing the track down for the year.

I noticed that some/most tracks in the south wont let you run until it's above 50*?

I've run at Atco when it was 37* (no ice)