The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[speedster]

Originally Posted by thePill

Wow, thanks for sharing that!!! That is a slick setup, over 8000rpms, 1000+ hp and tq, no weld custom built everything and a very complicated fuel delivery system... I loved the clutch too, that looked very unique..

Thanks again for posting that, gotta post that on my friends facebook...

No problem. Glad you enjoyed it. In the times visiting the shop over the past 2 years they were working on perfecting that combination. A lot was learned that is being used elsewhere. Gotta love technology...

[thePill]

Originally Posted by syr74

This seems to be a growing misconception, but the Cobra IRS was not a Control Blade design.

My post has been corrected, thanks for the info.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by thePill

Really? I was always told it that it was, but looking at the picture, I could never see why it was called control blade if the trailing arms were not... um trailing arms. That was the first thing that I looked at was the "front attachment points for the cradle look like trailing arms".. Thanks for clearing that up, I need to fix my post... So to be straight, the Cobra IRS is a traditional IRS w/cradle?

Yeah, more or less you are on the money now. The IRS in the Cobra is based somewhat on the Double A-Arm IRS out of the old 89 and newer MN12 Thunderbirds, but they had to make a lot of concessions to make it fit in the Mustang and that, along with the fact that the SN95's chassis really just wasn't anything like as good as that in the MN12, meant that it didn't work nearly as well. The IRS in the Cobra was a great effort given what they had to work with, but I have always thought that comparing the MN12 and the SN95 with the IRS really showed how important the chassis itself is, because the MN12 is huge and heavy compared to the SN95 but it works so much better than the Mustang did.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by Crowley

a quick google search shows articles from 2002 on this. When did they start work on this and do they have any American production vehicles that have it?


Crowley

I am unsure how many US vehicles currently have CB IRS, I know Ford of Europe has it, not sure about the states.. I have been overseas for the last 8 years.

[thePill]

Here is a front view of the non-compact Control Blade IRS (shown in the video in the Jetta). The shocks are mounted on rear shock towers.


Here is a rear view of the previous generation Control Blade, you can see the compact coilover (edit: Actually, this diagram does not use the coilover) setup that is mounted between the upper and lower links. This a very good diagram, it also looks as if the large subframe connector is mounted onto the rearend casing. Maybe to keep the entire IRS system stable during hard cornering and again, to absorb some of the force applied to the half-shafts that is associated under hard lateral g's.


I do not have any information on the next generation Control Blade IRS, all I know is that it is being tested here in Europe on the track (FIA GT3). I suppose it will be lighter, more durable and could contain additional (smaller) links for better balance and even support.. and maybe to shed some weight as well.

Here is a great suspension bible
http://file.upi.edu/Direktori/E%20-%...ion_bible.html

Here is the typical Camaro 4.5 Multi-link IRS

[AZ MSCL]

Love these threads! It's funny how most everyone here wants to hang their hat on how the new SS is the most powerful and greatest "stock" muscle car of the big three (of course the GT500 doesn't count because it isn't NA, it's overpriced and has been "modded"). Then low and behold, a supercharged Camaro comes out ("stock" of course - not modded), clearly designed to compete with the GT500. Now what’s the first car most here will throw at the GT500 for comparison (and fanboy parity)? The ZL1, as if it were the return of Christ Almighty (phewww, what a relief). BTW, even Chevy’s website says the ZL1 will only be 550 hp, not the fabled 620 of the 2013 GT500. And what was that MSRP for the ZL1?

The double standards and hypocrisy on this site are endless (not to mention a great source of entertainment!) And why in the hell is anyone mentioning the Nissan GT-R? It’s not even in the muscle/pony car arena! Let’s throw in Ferrari’s and Lambo’s too. Oh but wait, we have that price range rule that can put whatever package we want to in a neat little box to make our point “superior.” Seems like the new SRT8 392 falls back into the parity price range now – fantastic!

While there are a many here who can speak objectively about what a great time it is for muscle cars right now, most are what us “non-owners” are accused of on a regular basis – fanboys (Mr. Milk?). These same people know nothing more about their car than what they’ve read in the latest rag that says how superior it is, or they simply parrot someone else’s fanboy thread.

Jesus people, clap your hands because Ford may be producing a “stock” 620 hp muscle car… and the ZL1. Let’s see a 426 supercharged hemi for that matter.

Oh yeah, while you flame away at this thread, yes, I love the Camaro and yes, I know it’s a Camaro forum (simply addressing some of the members here). Also, my comments are directed at earlier posts on this thread, not the most recent tech stuff.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by BigDan

Radz28

The new 2011 GT500 starts at $49k not $6k more at $55k. There is brand new 2011's already going for $46k which almost half the cost of the $91k 2012 GTR that Motor Trend tested

Also the 2011 GT500 lapped VIR quicker then the 2010 Gran Sport Vette, so do you still consider the new G500 which pulls 1.0g's a straight line car?

The ragtop didn't. Try again.

Try reading my post again.

[Ltespd]

Originally Posted by radz28

Guess what - this is a CAMARO forum. I don't care that I'm taken as any other enthusiast.

Guess what - you know nothing more about this alleged GT500 than ZL1.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious

I'm an enthusiast also. I own a 2010 SS, Ive owned a 98 SS, a 88 Iroc, and a 85 Iroc. I will also buy a ZL1...unless the 2013 GT500 is a better car. I will buy the better all around topdog muscle car. I don't care if GM or Ford makes it.
Talk about pointing out the obvious...of course this is a Camaro forum. But that doesnt mean I have to drink the GM kool aid. I come here for knowledge and entertainment. Not bias of one car maker over another.

[BigDan]

Originally Posted by radz28

The ragtop didn't. Try again.

Try reading my post again.

oops I didn't read the quote you attached.

[el ess A]

This thread is amusing because it's full of internet experts.

I personally LOVE the fact there's close competition and the customer is winning. It's like Burger King, McDonald's and Wendy's going at it in the burger wars. Life's more fun when you have choices.

I try to keep an open mind, even though I'm from a GM family. Because of that, I'm sticking with Camaro. If Ford or Chrysler ever build anything that draws me away from the Camaro, I'd give it a whirl, but they haven't hit it yet. Ford and Chrysler pony cars have some features I find attractive, but as a package, there's things that I can't quite get past and are deal breakers to having one in my driveway. I drove an SRT, and a GT, but wasn't impressed enough. Camaro isn't perfect, but IMO, it's the best out of the 3 for me. I want Chrysler and Ford to up the ante and Camaro to respond, and vice-versa round the table. Otherwise, we'd all be driving vanilla cars.

But, with that said, you must ask yourself...WWJD? (What Would Jesus Drive?) If Jesus had a car, I'd bet it would be a Camaro.

[Blackbean]

When I made my initial post, about the Shelby,it was to highlight the fact that the car is wrongfully accused of being a ,"straight line," car.From 2008 to 2011,Ford has corrected alot of the handling problems not to mention raising the bar on HP.It is also my observation, that the Shelby is considered, by Ford, to be a performance car,and the price reflects that.
The future ZL1 is actually the car to compare to the Shelby,inasmuch as it is deemed to be a performance variant of the Camaro.
I have never seen a time when there are so many cool cars for sale, and most are made in America.I have to admit that everytime I'm in the Dodge dealership,I can't tear myself away from the Challenger.
I am an enthusiast of automobile technology as it pertains to high performance vehicles,and I don't care who makes it.A fanboy feels that he must defend his chosen brand even if it means making unsubstantiated and dissalutory attacks against his imaginary adversaries.
This is still the greatest automotive forum I've seen,bar none.

[Crowley]

Originally Posted by el ess X

This thread is amusing because it's full of internet experts.

I personally LOVE the fact there's close competition and the customer is winning. It's like Burger King, McDonald's and Wendy's going at it in the burger wars. Life's more fun when you have choices.

I try to keep an open mind, even though I'm from a GM family. Because of that, I'm sticking with Camaro. If Ford or Chrysler ever build anything that draws me away from the Camaro, I'd give it a whirl, but they haven't hit it yet. Ford and Chrysler pony cars have some features I find attractive, but as a package, there's things that I can't quite get past and are deal breakers to having one in my driveway. I drove an SRT, and a GT, but wasn't impressed enough. Camaro isn't perfect, but IMO, it's the best out of the 3 for me. I want Chrysler and Ford to up the ante and Camaro to respond, and vice-versa round the table. Otherwise, we'd all be driving vanilla cars.

But, with that said, you must ask yourself...WWJD? (What Would Jesus Drive?) If Jesus had a car, I'd bet it would be a Camaro.

LOL ..

Well said. There are a lot of us that may not be brand specific. However you never know what you are going to get when you post the information about a car from the competition on a site. You just know you will get a blend of die hard fans (from both sides) who will argue. Then you will get your generic car fans (I consider myself this) who may argue points on both sides.

In the end your first statement is what counts. Competition is very good for the consumer. It may drive prices up a bit, however, it will also breed a better machine for all of us. It would be nice if both sides could have some respect for each other and admire the good points each car presents.

Remember, looks are subjective and I don't think that should be brought up as any argument (unless you are talking about a PACER


I loved the javelin though .. same car maker (AMC) I believe.. lol




All we can expect is that when one company takes the next step, the next company will try to step higher ..

Crowley

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by Blackbean

......I have never seen a time when there are so many cool cars for sale, and most are made in America.....

really? i could think of a time when there were a ton of different cars. now its just 'cami, mustang, challenger, ctsv,corvette' thats pretty much it. no chevelle, gto, firebird, Nova, ranchero, javelin,REAL charger, Torino, Galaxie 500, Impala SS, Dart, Marauder, Cutlass, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Fairlane, GTX, Bonneville, Coronet, Satellite, Skylark, and im sure im missing others but even that list makes todays seem rather limited.

[BigDan]

^ I just couldn't leave out Duster's. That's what my Mom and I drove around in for my first 5 years. I was brought home from the hospital in my Dad's green 69 z/28 w/ cross ram, and parked it next to his 70 Hemi 'Cuda. No lie, they weren't that valuable back then, in fact he sold them both for 5k each in 82. At least he sold the hemi cuda to his at the time 16 year old brother who still has it.