"Our" Economy

[xl1200r]

Originally Posted by shnomac77

I posted this in another thread but I really want to hear what people have to say, fire away!


So I am sitting here reading this thread and thinking about this madness we call the economy. Most of us agree that the economy is not at its best right now and there is alot of problems with our big three. Then it struck me...... I am part of our Big 3's problem. I BOUGHT A BMW.... What if I would of bought a car from the big 3? What if we all bought a car from the big 3? We bitch and moan about the economy yet many of us do nothing to change it. Maybe we should realllllly start looking at our purchases a little more carefully before we fork over the cash. This economy has really got me thinking..... WHAT CAN I DO DIFFERENT??????? I think I am going to sale my BMW and buy a vehicle from the big 3. Hey I am only one person but its a start. Maybe we can change our economy and not have to wait for our government to figure it out for us. What if each one of us convinced 1 family member or 1 friend to buy from the big 3 instead of foreign? Maybe its to far fetched but damn it I am willing to give it a try.

I think about this same thing very often. Sort of like voting - I live in New York, so my vote really doesn't matter, BUT, sometimes, one voice can get the ball rolling.

Personally, I have never owned anything but an American car. For the most part, my family (extended included) is the same way.

But my friends are a totally different story. With the exception of a used Corvette, I am the only American car among us. In fact, a couple whom I'm friends with just traded in both of their Toyota Corollas for Camrys.

Not sure where I heard this, might have been here, but it was a good bumper sticker:

"Still have a job? Keep buying foreign."

[TomServo]

I bought my wife a new 2008 Accord EX-L last fall, paid $29,000. Nice car and love the toys. But it's been in for warranty work the exact same number of times as our old "beater" 2001 PT Cruiser.

It has more rattles/noises than the PT and my vette. I would have purchased a new Malibu but it didn't come with Nav.

Never again. The grass isn't greener and I will never ever believe what car magazines say. Buying a Honda was billed as if it was designed and built by GOD.

[bigralph]

The general public don't understand how serious this problem is. If the big 3 fall not only 3 million jobs will be lost, but all import car will cost bubble do to no completion.

[xl1200r]

Import cars will not raise in price - they still have to compete with each other. We like to group the "Jap" cars all together, and "BMW" seems to be ubiquidous with anything european, but if the big three were to all fail, there would still be at least 15 mainstream car companies out there doing business in North America. Hardly a monopoly.

[rayhawk]

I saw an even better bumper sticker:

"Hungry? Out of Work? Eat your import!"

As for the unions, federal laws give them mind boggling protections and they will continue to drag down this country until they are all dismantled. Their only purpose is to ensure that a company has to pay higher than market value for labor. This is good for those few protected union guys, bad for businesses, and bad for America.

Unions were created to protect workers from bad conditions, long hours, etc. We now have OSHA, and other laws that solve all of these problems. Get rid of the unions (and the ridiculous guarantees they have won), and the big 3 will finally have a fair fight against foreign companies, and more cars will be built in the US (and the money will stay here instead of going to Japan).

[WolfpackRedCamaro]

First off, let me say that I will be ordering a 2010 Camaro 2LT RS. Got my deposit ready and everything, but I'm waiting until to see what comes of this bailout until I place the order.

That said, I have owned both "domestic" (one made in Canada, owned by an American company) and "import" (two made in America, owned by Japanese companies) cars, and I will say there is a difference in quality. Unfortunately, it doesn't favor the Big 3.

My favorite car was a then-new '99 Firebird V6 that I had in high school. A very hot car, but plagued by one electronic issue after another. I was constantly replacing fog light lamps. Both window motors had to be replaced. My Monsoon stereo console had to be replaced. My alternator went out after 30,000 miles. It was certainly a love-hate relationship.

That said, I traded it in for a Nissan Frontier crew-cab truck in '04. Great truck, not one problem. Traded that in for an '06 Civic when I started commuting longer to work. Again, not one problem with this car either. While both of these Jap vehicles performed well and held up, they had no "soul". I used/use them to get to & from work, there was/is no real "joy" in driving them.

When I saw the 5th gen Camaro concept, I was in love. It brought me back to my days as a teenager yearning for an American muscle car.

But frankly, I'm concerned. Why is it that our tax dollars should reward incompetence in the marketplace, even when it's "American"? I would be much more for this bailout if it included clauses to renegotiate the absurd UAW contracts that are draining the life out of the Big 3. Let's face it, lack of innovation and quality control, combined with letting the unions get anything they want, have helped bring the Big 3 to the brink of extinction. Yet, everyone here is for throwing more money at the problem?

Of course the Democrats want to bailout the Big 3 as it is right now, because they're lobbied by their union leader buddies and this vicious cycle of ridiculous benefit packages will only continue. The model for future success would not be put in place if we just hand over billions of dollars to a company that would still be making the same mistakes.

I want to see a Camaro in my garage as much as the next guy here, but to blindly trust this notion of a bailout is not wise, unless it has concessions put into place first. As it is with any problem, merely throwing more money at it will not solve the crisis... but certainly, correcting the bad behavior will.

[SdustinK]

don't get why there isn't a seperate dissussion board for the economy and gm. None of this is related to the 5th gen like the description under 5th gen camaro general disscusions says.

[rlg3]

Originally Posted by WolfpackRedCamaro

First off, let me say that I will be ordering a 2010 Camaro 2LT RS. Got my deposit ready and everything, but I'm waiting until to see what comes of this bailout until I place the order.

That said, I have owned both "domestic" (one made in Canada, owned by an American company) and "import" (two made in America, owned by Japanese companies) cars, and I will say there is a difference in quality. Unfortunately, it doesn't favor the Big 3.

My favorite car was a then-new '99 Firebird V6 that I had in high school. A very hot car, but plagued by one electronic issue after another. I was constantly replacing fog light lamps. Both window motors had to be replaced. My Monsoon stereo console had to be replaced. My alternator went out after 30,000 miles. It was certainly a love-hate relationship.

That said, I traded it in for a Nissan Frontier crew-cab truck in '04. Great truck, not one problem. Traded that in for an '06 Civic when I started commuting longer to work. Again, not one problem with this car either. While both of these Jap vehicles performed well and held up, they had no "soul". I used/use them to get to & from work, there was/is no real "joy" in driving them.

When I saw the 5th gen Camaro concept, I was in love. It brought me back to my days as a teenager yearning for an American muscle car.

But frankly, I'm concerned. Why is it that our tax dollars should reward incompetence in the marketplace, even when it's "American"? I would be much more for this bailout if it included clauses to renegotiate the absurd UAW contracts that are draining the life out of the Big 3. Let's face it, lack of innovation and quality control, combined with letting the unions get anything they want, have helped bring the Big 3 to the brink of extinction. Yet, everyone here is for throwing more money at the problem?

Of course the Democrats want to bailout the Big 3 as it is right now, because they're lobbied by their union leader buddies and this vicious cycle of ridiculous benefit packages will only continue. The model for future success would not be put in place if we just hand over billions of dollars to a company that would still be making the same mistakes.

I want to see a Camaro in my garage as much as the next guy here, but to blindly trust this notion of a bailout is not wise, unless it has concessions put into place first. As it is with any problem, merely throwing more money at it will not solve the crisis... but certainly, correcting the bad behavior will.

I agree with alot of what your saying except blaming the unions. The suits at the big three singed those contracts. Just like they signed off on cars for years that were not up to snuff damaging the Big 3 reputation and now when they offer many top quality cars and trucks they are living under a bad reputation. At the end of the day all of the "mistakes" you point out are a fault of their leadership not the unions, not the buyers, and not the government.

[rlg3]

Originally Posted by SdustinK

don't get why there isn't a seperate dissussion board for the economy and gm. None of this is related to the 5th gen like the description under 5th gen camaro general disscusions says.

There will not be a 5th gen that is available to the public if the GM and the economy are not fixed, so it has everything to do with 5th gen camaro general disscusions

[SdustinK]

how's that true when on that podcast there were two people from gm saying the camaro will still go in production on feb 16

[WolfpackRedCamaro]

^^^ There's blood on the hands of both the execs and the union leaders. I seem to recall strikes and threats of strikes during the last couple rounds of negotiations.

And the gov't may not have had a big share of the problem, but they will be exposed to be completely incompetent if they don't do this the right way.

[2001ragtop]

I was going to post this before but I changed my mind.

It is my belief that if the BIG THREE show up on TV commercials and behave in a sincere way, and appeal to the public to please consider their vehicles "to help America" stay great, or something like that,

As long as the CEO or whoever it is behaves in a sincere, yet serious way, I bet they could remove half the cars on their lots.

A PERSONAL PUBLIC APPEAL TO THE U.S. citizens would probably help make a DENT in sales. I mean, come on, Chrysler STILL has a lifetime warranty and GM has a 100,000 mile warranty.

I own TWO fords and no foreign cars right now.

I will VERY likely get a car made by one of the BIG 3 sometime soon. Might not be a camaro because I kinda need a econobox right now.

[SdustinK]

it's so easy the reason people don't buy American cars is they don't believe there's reliable. That's why u see 6 series and sl mercedes and not z06 all over or zr1

[Hesh]

I myself have owned 4 cars in my life. Mostly domestic makes. 2 damn fords and a s15 blazer I still have in the garage getting a hotrod makeover. My current car is my first and last import ever to darken my driveway. When I met my wife she had a toyota and I have already told her the same thing. No more damn imports will be bought by anyone in this hosue. I have a new beetle and it has been one of the most problamatic P.O.S. I have ever owned. Id rather go back to those damn fords.