Shno's House of Z

[Supercup]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The real question is will car guys be willing to drive something that sounds like an electric toothbrush the 99.99% of the time they don’t spend on a track, as well as giving up the ability to build the engines how the want.

I think the answer to that is those of us who grew up with the sound and ability to work on cars and build then into something more will always want that.

While we may be impressed with the performance of the electric cars we will always miss the noise from a V8 or exotic six.

I grew up in San Diego and each September the Hydro's came to town and they ran the Allison V16 motors for years. When I was kid you would hear them practicing on Wed. and Thursday, even if you were 10 miles away! You could not wait to get to the bay shore watch them in person and hear the noise. The eventually converted to jet engines and the power went up, the speed went up, but the noise went away. They draw was not the same - the racing remains awesome, but to this day I miss those V16 Allison motors roaring by the shore!

My son (17) grew up in V8 boats, motorcycles, quads etc. so he loves all that goes with it. But he also grew up with video game racing - and so he will take the fastest, best handling option you can give him and if that is electric he will take it, noise be dammed!

Kids starting out now (4-5 year old's) won't remember the 911 RS of 1972 that I remember, they will remember the new supercar Hybrids and what comes next. That will likely be their dream!

But that will leave more of the old iron for all of us to enjoy!

[j o n]

Well put

Purchase decisions are based not just off what you can afford but what speaks to you.

So as you said, fond memories influence what you enjoy. Sometime outweighing performance/value/bargains that other cars can provide.

[macalot]

So as we wind down the electric car road and the gutsy sounding V8's disappear can you imagine what just might happen to the prices of used 'old' V8 muscle cars?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yes....except when they don’t really know what they want.

The question is, when all the ICE guys get tired of being roasted by EVs on the track and at the strip will the sound of a V8 ultimately matter?

It depends on ego vs experience. I personally prefer the experience, hence the NA engine and M7 gearbox.

[2cnd chance]

This discussion reminds me of Rush's song "Red Barchetta".

[Number 3]

The hardest part will be if the choice doesn't exist down the road. Right now China is the single biggest car market in the world.....by a lot. 30,000,000. They are hell bent for EVs, beg, borrowing or stealing the technology. Photos of Shanghai and Beijing look like the old pictures of LA in the 60s when the smog was horrific. When you have to spend you money and resources to support that largest market, is there any left for those of us that still want an ICE?

And the issue is that those of us here that want sound and feel of a V8 are simply in the small minority. GM puts a V8 in the Camaro, Corvette, ATS-V, CTS-V and the now dead CT6-V (which I am madly in love with. It's a product placement in HBO's Ray Donovan). That's it that I can recall. All pricey and all low volume.

Even things like putting the Turbo 6 from the XTS V-sport into the Regal GS don't happen. It fits. It works with AWD. But GM isn't going to spend money and resources to do it. :(

We will see where we are 5 and 10 years. Today, Tesla has just barely eaked out a profit on EVs. GM still relies on FST and FSSUVs for a huge chunk of that profit. So not sure if GM has a good plan or not.

Think of it this way, if you have an autonomous EV buzzing you around, how likely are you too replace it or how often? The passion for driving it will be gone and it will be more like buying a new refrigerator. When it stops keeping things cold you get a new one. But I sure don't see people running out to get a new fridge when the newest, better model comes out.

[2cnd chance]

When does it all end? When will autonomous cars be “the” thing. The car becoming an appliance is very depressing.

[Number 3]

Merry Christmas to The House.

Hope you all have a great day with family and friends.

Please keep those away from home serving our country and protecting our freedom in your thoughts and prayers.

Pray for the safety of those that protect us here at home.

[Gbland60]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Merry Christmas to The House.

Hope you all have a great day with family and friends.

Please keep those away from home serving our country and protecting our freedom in your thoughts and prayers.

Pray for the safety of those that protect us here at home.

AMEN !

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

When does it all end? When will autonomous cars be “the” thing. The car becoming an appliance is very depressing.

Becoming? The overwhelming majority already are. Fun, expressive cars are an extreme minority. Not just Camaros, but look at the overall selection for coupes, convertibles, and 3-door hatchbacks. There is practically nothing out there. Those are the cars for people that want something a bit more fun. A little interesting. Not boring. Not an appliance. And they don't sell for shit, haven't for quite a while. There are even very few 'quirky' cars today. Stuff like the Honda Element, or Nissan Cube. They weren't for everyone, but they were built for people who didn't want just a boring appliance. Now that class of vehicle is pretty much gone too. I don't miss them ... but its all part of the same shift in customer preference.

The market has spoken: it wants cars to be a practical appliance. Hence, the explosion of the crossover.

But the death of the human driven car won't be a desire to be driven, it will be insurance. When the insurance companies realize autonomous cars are appreciably safer than human drivers (and that won't take long), AV insurance costs will plummet & the meatbags still behind the wheel making up the difference (sensibly, since they're the ones that will be crashing all the time). But once that tipping point is reached, AVs will very quickly become the standard. A car you drive yourself will become either a toy, or an anachronism. Like riding a horse. Lots of people still ride horses, for recreation or sport ... but not as a practical means of getting to work every day.

[Number 3]

Have to keep in mind there are literally hundreds of millions of cars in America. It will take years before those get replaced by EVs and autonomous cars and trucks. And tap hat assumes suddenly the OEMs convert 100% of production.

I’m counting on it being a migration. But 30 years from now when I’m well into my 80s having a autonomous EV to maintain my safe mobility will likely be a Godsend. But by then I may just be more ornery and stubborn and just plug up the roads, lol.

[1970judge]

One of the most interesting parts of my job at GM was finding out WHO REALLY calls the shots..its not the OEM's trust me. The industry as a whole is nothing more than politics, much like the dirt bags in DC. Lets say, for instance...California..just suddenly vanished, vaporized to another dimension and (sorry folks) 99% of its population..I dont think you realize how badass cars would be. I wont get overly political here, but the fact is this..when republicans run things, generally speaking OEM's have some wiggle room, when Democrats run things..OEM's have less wiggle room..and this is ALL while bowing to the "almighty" California, which operates on near full autonomy. Now you'll ask "what about MTB's commitment to Zero crashes, zero emissions, zero congestion" etc etc. Its commendable, and admirable, I happen to think that MTB has done a bang up job at GM, and supported her fully. HOWEVER, the pressure from a market correction, is the ultimate power..if 100% of the population woke up tomorrow and said, you know what, F AV/EV cars..I want 6.0 liters..no less, you'd be amazed at how quickly she would change her tune. OR, if CA and TX both woke up and demanded 6.0 liter vehicles tomorrow..it would change in a hurry, regardless of how the other 48 states that no one cares about feels.

OEM's answer to people in this order
A)California/Carb
A_i) Texas
B) Government
C) Insurance

A and A_i pull about the same weight [Population] but vary that CA has [population+Carb]. So A can overcome A_i, unless Texas has B [an elected republican majority, paid for by Oil]. C is the swing vote, they side with who is winning, every time. Despite what you may think, they dont give two shits about whats safer...they only care about what makes the most money. And in the above example, yes, a cash cow would be TAXING the shit out of stubborn gas drivers, getting most of the population into an AV..then going back up on insurance. Works like a charm. Oil companies did it with Diesel cars years ago, hats off to them for playing the system.

Also, if you live in any other state besides CA or TX, realize no one in the OEM gives a shit about your feelings lol.

[Gbland60]

DAMN Tell us how you really feel marcus

[2cnd chance]

Yay! No more Fox Sports 1 & 2 for IMSA!!!

NBCSN is already sooooo much better. However I do miss Justin Bell.