GM Closing Oshawa, Other Plants

[Doc]

Originally Posted by protovack

You have your view, I respect that. However consider:

1. Yes, healthy companies do in fact close some manufacturing facilities and open others.
2. Old big (and small) box stores certainly closed, that's true. However its not the same industry and not the same reasons. Toys'r'us closed because Walmart does it cheaper, not better. Same thing with the rest. By the way, there is still a fully functional Sears in my home town!
3. Getting away from monthly sales numbers is a good thing. It's an intelligent move. The media is hyperfocused on monthly sales data as if it means something, it usually doesn't so why obsess over it. The reason for this is not to trick people. Their sales numbers are public and anybody who wants their sales data can get it.
4. SUVs and Trucks are successful and will continue to be, both for Ford and GM.
5. Going from 30% market share to 15% doesn't matter as much as you think. Companies scale to their market, and they can still be profitable. Any one restaurant in a town has only has a miniscule amount of the total market share but they can still be profitable.
6. No one ever said the sedan market is dead. It IS over-saturated though now that that demand has done down. Don't kid yourself, demand for sedans has definitely dropped.
7. I do realize the 7th gen camaro is already well into and possibly finished with design phase. However your assertion that the Camaro team is struggling to justify itself is way off base. The Camaro has been wildly successful for GM and very profitable. You can look up the numbers on your own if you don't believe me.
8. I like your point about the family and what about the starter car for the 18 year old, etc. But, Chevrolet still has the subcompacts like the Sonic, etc, and probably always will have them under various names. They are super fuel efficient and go a long way to getting them compliant with CAFE standards. But it's obvious people like crossovers.

GM sells lots of cars, in the US and all around the world. The Equinox sells just as many as any CRV or Rav-4. They sold just as many Cruzes as Hyundai sold Elantras. And they sell bazillions of trucks and large crossover/SUVs and these are highly profitable markets.

I'm as surprised as you are that GM is killing the Cruze as it sold tons of units and was doing really well, but I'm sure there are more complicated reasons behind the decision than we realize. They are making a bet on the next 5 years and hoping it pays off, no different than any other company selling anything. Agree or disagree, doesn't matter. And like it or not, GM can afford to be a little cavalier knowing that they can get bailed out. You may not agree with that politically but there are reasons for it. Ironically, bailouts ended up being indirect subsidies for the manufacturing towns GM operates (yes, and also capital for expanding their worldwide business).

Is the competition really putting out "better products" at a "better price?" That's a matter of opinion my friend. I'm biased as I tend to like GM products, but I have my reasons. I just got a new 2.0T Equinox and it is one of the best vehicles I've ever driven. I like it a ton better than my old Forester! My K2 Silverado has been bullet proof and it does more, and gets the best gas mileage of any truck I've ever owned. And my SS 1LE puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. And because I could easily add a flex fuel kit I'll likely be able to drive it well into the future after petroleum gets real expensive. GM and Ford both are heavily invested in the possibility that ethanol becomes the main liquid fuel for road transport in the future. Doesn't seem very "short-sighted" to me.

There is certainly no shortage of people on the internet who are absolutely sure that if THEY were made CEO of GM, they would run it SO much better

What other plants did they announce they were opening? I didn't see that part; only the closing of plants. The announcement wasn't a growth/expansion announcement; it was cuts, period.

Long-standing American companies - of which GM and Ford certainly are - all of them suffered the same problem. They didn't change, or adapt fast enough to competition and the changing market. GM and Ford are struggling with that same issue.

Well you know, it's funny how monthly sales are a way of tracking if money is coming in or not, and what months have what kinds of sales trends. Don't kid yourself; just because they aren't going to publish the numbers on a monthly basis doesn't mean they aren't watching it. They're tracking it by the WEEK. They have to in order to project labor scheduling and parts/assemblies/supplies costs. There's a psychology to numbers. Monthly decreasing numbers can cause the public to think that particular model is in trouble and not going to be made anymore, so they MAY stop buying because of that. It's just a perception but in the marketplace perception is reality. GM wants to report "Last report we sold 10,000 Camaros" instead of "Last month we sold 2,600." Pay attention to the wording in the announcement they just made. LOTS of carefully crafted wording to avoid saying anything that might appear negative, which actually makes it stand out as something other than positive.

SUV's and trucks are successful right now, but that's a trend that's going to flatten out. Those things are too expensive to replace every 2-3 years. They're still a fairly new market item but the sales numbers are rapidly filling the demand. Once everybody and their dog has an SUV or a truck, what do you think they're going to be looking at next? A new $50k+ one? No, they're going to be looking at a second or third vehicle at a much lower price. That's already happening, but once the market for the bigger ticket SUV's and trucks starts to flatten, the attention will turn to the other two vehicles the family wants. Waiting until that happens is too late. Somebody else who can move faster, like Mazda or another company will get something ready for that before GM can even decide to get in. They should start now, so in 3 years they'll be ready to own that market before the others can scramble to come up with something to compete. They could have a full clean year of owning that market if they're ready for it when it pops.

Going from 30% to 15% marketshare is horrendous. It means there is no slack; hardly any margin for error. When you have 30% you have many lines that can carry a few of the not so great sellers. If you have to discontinue a model, you have enough revenue from the rest of your marketshare that you can handle it without having to close plants and lay off workers. When you have 15% marketshare, you do what you saw them announce today. You don't have a big revenue war chest to carry anything like you used to. A restaurant is not a valid comparison; it doesn't take a billion dollars to create, build and market a new item on the menu. Government regulations have made the auto industry brutally expensive to be in.

Demand for AMERICAN sedans has dropped. The pricey models are close to saturation so it's going to take a really good effort to compete. That was just demonstrated by Alfa Romeo with their new Giulias but it cost a bundle to make that happen; billions. To me that's the executive car class; dad's car. There's money there no question, but there's also a lot of competition for that money. Where I think the brass ring is, is for the third member of the family. That's somewhere between $20k-$30k, preferably at the lower end of that to start. Mazda makes a great sedan in the Mazda 6, and you can get the sport model for about $22k. It's not the kind of car the third member of the family wants, but it shows that a great little car can be made at that price point.

Take a look at this beauty which Mazda is showing off:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/ma...pirations-news

https://newatlas.com/mazda-vision-co...he-year/53723/

If they drop that beauty into the marketplace between $20k-$30k, even dad might want one of those. Don't say they can't or won't. I would not underestimate Mazda.

The Camaro WAS wildly successful when it first came out; I know, I bought one without seeing or driving one. I knew from the pictures I wanted one. Nine years later it's still in my garage. I HAVE been following the sales activity for the past nine years. The sales trends for the 6th gen have not matched the 5th gen. There's no question the 6th gen is better; it's wildly better, best high performance American sports GT ever built. Problem was, the price. The Camaro customer base was a $25k-$40k base, not a $40k-$70k base. I ordered my 1SS with 6 speed manual in 2009 for $34k. Can't do that now.

They hit the crowd they were aiming at; the forum enthusiast track crowd. I'm sure they thought that Porsche, BMW and others were going to see the value compared to what their cars cost, and cross over. Some did, but not enough. The affluent crowd tends to be very status conscious; the GM badge just doesn't carry the same status weight as a Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, etc. badge.

Having 4 months of inventory sitting on the lots is not profitable. They had to carry that the entire time. They already paid the labor, parts, and manufacturing costs. They don't have any money coming in from that investment until those cars start selling. They weren't, which is why the lot inventory backed up that far. They were thinking the same thing you said: "the Camaro is wildly successful", except it wasn't last year. It had been out for 6 months before I saw a single car on the road. I see a few now and then, but that's about it. The roads are swimming in BMWs, Mercedes, Audi... all those cars are in the same price range as the 6th gen. It doesn't matter what you or I say, or what the execs at GM think. What matters is what the customers think, and what they choose to spend their money on. They are voting with their wallets, and the votes aren't for GM or Ford sedans.

IF GM is going to reach that third family member, they have to realize those aren't Prius drivers. They don't want to drive what their parents drive. They want to drive something that's fun, and looks fun and sporty. And it has to be affordable. That kind of vehicle can be done, it just takes someone with the authority to say "let's do it".

As far as the competition putting out a better product at a better price, take a look at what you see on the roads. I could have bought anything, but a year ago I decided to buy an AWD Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Lusso. It's not a track car, it's not a 1/4 car. It's superb. This does a pretty good job of describing today's announcement by GM:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...-kills-sedans/

What a lot of people don't realize is the financial burden of the union contracts and retirements GM is locked into. It's in the billions. That has to be paid for by vehicle sales, and they also have to sell enough on top of that to make a profit. They need a hot seller; a hot volume seller other than SUVs or trucks. They have everything they need; they just need someone to say "let's do it".

[ssrs2lt]

Darn it now lordstown and Detroit-Hamtramck are closing next yr as well..

[Royal Tiger]

I think Doc is right on the money.

[pyroguy]

Originally Posted by The camaro show

The impala has been around so long tho

So has the Suburban with the bragging right of the longest continuous run nameplate in the automotive history. It's been around since the early 1930's yet it is here to stay.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

I think Doc is right on the money.

He usually is.

[VinnAY]

I don't think the primped up beta male they use to pump their adverts of late is helping things.

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

I think Doc is right on the money.

Definitivamente

[craigss50]

Originally Posted by cbr1100xx

GM products suck for the most part in terms of quality/reliability/quality control. The only GM car I'd consider is a Camaro/Vette.

Totally agree. Camaro and Vette are fun cars and there aren't enough of us out there. That said we bought a new Accord Touring and that sucker really handles. It has a duel damping suspension with Sport, Normal and Eco modes, HUD, ventilated/heated seats and all the accident avoidance systems all standard. It also has very good acceleration and gets 30mpg around town. 40 on the hwy at a much cheaper cost than an SUV which gets no where near that mpg. If GM had paid more attention to quality rather than a lot of talk about JD Power ratings which mean nothing they would have sold more cars.

[christianchevell]

Oshawa has been slated for removal long ago when they moved Camaro production to Bowling Green as the Canadians were so greedy for more wages they ran the UAW out of there representing them the Canadian Greed Workers association which frankly is really their downfall not just the loss of interest in the small car market so much. Eventually the gas prices will go up, just wait some Dem will come into office and tax the crap out of it and not care about the economy but social programs to ensure they stay in power...…


That and design changes coming around for more different models in the future...lazy people want autonomous as they are stupid and its not practical really let alone ever cost effective much, but hey some people...…………..
Unfortunately the Impalas sales have been off though they are nice and the stupid start stop engine crap and stuff you get with a Cruise or even Malibu now is scary crap just to save a drop of fuel...bet in the future people get killed from that crap...…

Think Gm needs to make a Soul/ what ever Toyota etc mini van with retro looks more like the HHR again IMO...……...

[rocket403]

GM has decided to close it's plant in Oshawa Ontario this was the plant that made the 5 Gen Camaro, GM had been making cars in Oshawa for close to 100 years.

https://theprovince.com/news/canada/...9-71543b6fba0b

[lbls1]

Its sad that often the hardworking, dedicated people of an organization will take the brunt of the cost cutting and belt tightening going on in the company.

GM and Chevy will need to get a tight grip on their market priorities, and come up with competitive products that sell. As it stands it looks like they will have more hard times ahead of them.

[90503]

No way! I don't believe it. Where'd you hear that?...lol

[oldschoolkat]

That ain't the only plant:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/26/busin...ant/index.html

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[RubyCamaro]

Very, very sad. Love my 2010. The quality of it's build is unequaled. I treasure my brochure with signatures of the build team. May they all land on their feet.