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Old 11-27-2018, 04:06 PM   #85
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With all due respect that is an absolutely stupid statement. The previous administration in the Whitehouse gave you 2% GDP growth said "these jobs" are gone forever and all the while doubled the US debt. Honestly you couldn't do a worse job then that!!!! Do you understand that the GDP is now near 4%???

W/o the tax cuts companies like Apple and Microsoft are not US companies as they keep their profits overseas to avoid the worst corporate taxes in the world. The tariffs will work themselves out and if your actually paying attention, the US has huge tariffs against them by other countries. The US does get screwed on that royally. When I worked in Brasil all US technology was taxed at 100% so you pay $2000 US for an iPhone X in Brasil. How would you like to be Boeing and if you want to sell the 787 in China? Boeing has to make it in China then all of the plans and Intellectual Property rights are then just stolen. That happens across a variety of countries from everything from planes to pharmaceuticals.

The best thing that we can all do is see with our eyes (facts) and not with our hearts, (politics). I honestly didn't care if we were ruled by Hindu monks as long as they delivered the best overall opportunities for all Americans!!!
The writing is on the wall and the economy has been overheated.... Two Thirds of economists now predict a downturn in the US economy within the next few years, of a recession or much worse. The reasoning... Fear and insecurity over the trade war, plus rising interest rates required to keep inflation in check from the large corporate tax cuts in an already booming economy, not to mention the huge additional debt load created from these cuts complicated by ongoing necessary interest rate hikes. Normally a booming economy is the time to pay down debt and not add to it. There are a lot of smart people that warned against these moves for these exact reasons....Overheated!!!!
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:07 PM   #86
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Sometimes I have to wonder about the people that bang American cars in general and GM products specifically. For the last 35 years we have bled nothing but Chevy bowties and have put over 1.4 Million miles on 11 Chevrolets. We buy them and keep them until the wheels fall off. Only 1 was actually traded in on another Chevy. Two were totalled.

In all those cars and all those miles we have had only 2 OEM parts fail on the road - a water pump on an 89 Caprice and a fuel pump on a 2000 Silverado, and both at high mileage. They have all been solid, reliable vehicles and we get our money's worth out of every one. I've wanted a number of muscle cars over the years and I'm glad the Camaro is my first. We plan to keep it for a long, long time.

We bend over backwards to buy products Made in USA - cars, motorcycles, tools, appliances, clothing, you name it. It's not always easy and it's not always cheap. But we want to help keep Americans working and our economy strong. We're sorry to hear about the plants closing and all those people being laid off. We hope that GM will bounce back and be able to put those folks to work again.
Yep...I can't figure out this new anti Americanism. I've never seen it before. They won't be happy until all products are made overseas and America is totally dependant on products made elsewhere. They'll figure it out just when its to late.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:10 PM   #87
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This statement is incongruous with your previous thoughts. Look for yourself, trends were started well before 45 took office. Source, the Fed:

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/64670...ng-u-s-economy

Not only that, the amount of jobs added per year under 45 are dwarfed by those added per year during 44's admin:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#3b62d1441283

You mentioned GDP grown, guess what, 45 also loses there:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.10e638dd980f

These are all FACTS. When you say something with nothing to back it up, that's OPINION. Cheerleading. Adhering to your political religion. Letting your bias skew empirical data.
And here is a recent WSJ op/ed piece that refutes your view. I had to laugh when you include NPR and the Washington Post as some pure source of facts. I don’t expect you to change your mind with a WSJ piece anymore than you should expect anything from NPR or the Post to change someone else’s. Facts?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-k...s&page=1&pos=6
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:10 PM   #88
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Yeah, they are the same so-called facts all the liberals puke daily. The main reason the phrase "Fake Media" has taken center stage and gained national attention. You might as well have posted facts from CNN, lol!!!
LOL...and he's getting his quotes from NPR, Forbes, and the Wash. Post. Can't get more liberal and anti Trump than that. Its Fake news.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:11 PM   #89
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the tortoise wins the race....( a reference to our overheated economy, we were better of building slowly and steadily than the fake injection of corporate tax cuts that are coming around to bite us in the ass)

all of the lessons that have been told to us in movies and anecdotal stories have been cultivated over years, and for good reason... it is truly scary that every time one of our liar in chiefs supporters put their 2 cents in, they have no basis to support their claims and blast any semblance of fact as fake news, and then of course then start calling people names like liberals and such..
the fact is that the tariffs are not helping they are hurting and globalism is way better for our country than protectionism...…
again we should all be working together for solutions instead of calling each other names, but facts are facts and that you cant change...
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:17 PM   #90
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the tortoise wins the race....

all of the lessons that have been told to us in movies and anecdotal stories have been cultivated over years, and for good reason... it is truly scary that every time one of our liar in chiefs supporters put their 2 cents in, they have no basis to support their claims and blast any semblance of fact as fake news, and then of course then start calling people names like liberals and such..
the fact is that the tariffs are not helping they are hurting and globalism is way better for our country than protectionism...…
again we should all be working together for solutions instead of calling each other names, but facts are facts and that you cant change...
+1..... And the sad fact is this country is more divided right now than anytime since the civil war.... So tribal it’s scary!!!
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:19 PM   #91
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they say liberal like its evil, meanwhile both sides generally have a point and some where in the middle is the solution, it cant be one way or the other...
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:22 PM   #92
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This doesn't have to be a zero sum game.

GM can develop better cars that more people want to buy. No tariffs required to do that. When I park my car at the gym here in Eastern Massachusetts, I am surrounded by Porsche Macans and Range Rover Evoques. These are not "practical" SUVs but personal high performance vehicles that are just slightly taller than sedans. GM has nothing to offer in this category. The rest of the cars in the lot are Mercedes and Audi sedans that are similar in size to the Impala, but they have beautiful interiors that don't look like rentals.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:26 PM   #93
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This doesn't have to be a zero sum game.

GM can develop better cars that more people want to buy. No tariffs required to do that. When I park my car at the gym here in Eastern Massachusetts, I am surrounded by Porsche Macans and Range Rover Evoques. These are not "practical" SUVs but personal high performance vehicles that are just slightly taller than sedans. GM has nothing to offer in this category. The rest of the cars in the lot are Mercedes and Audi sedans that are similar in size to the Impala, but they have beautiful interiors that don't look like rentals.
agreed
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:28 PM   #94
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And here is a recent WSJ op/ed piece that refutes your view. I had to laugh when you include NPR and the Washington Post as some pure source of facts. I don’t expect you to change your mind with a WSJ piece anymore than you should expect anything from NPR or the Post to change someone else’s. Facts?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-k...s&page=1&pos=6
Does not refute whatsoever. My contentions were Obama had better numbers. He did. That contention was Trumps are more sustained. We shall see. See how that works? I can make a rational assessment of empirical data without screaming “fake”, you lot seem incapable of doing so. Funny how that works.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:30 PM   #95
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Funny thing that the government doesn’t bring attention to the 25% tariffs that this country has had on all pickup trucks imported to the US for many, many years. Imagine where the Big3 would be right now without that.....
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:55 PM   #96
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+1..... And the sad fact is this country is more divided right now than anytime since the civil war.... So tribal it’s scary!!!
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:01 PM   #97
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The governor of Ohio whose state just lost it’s Chevy Cruze Lordstown assembly plant disagrees. He states that trade war tariffs have cut already very slim profit margins on these slow selling cars making it next to impossible to continue production. Also, over the summer GM warned that tariffs “could lead to a smaller GM”.... It’s sad to watch Americans love affair with the boring SUV bring about the demise of some, and eventually most all, of some very spirited passenger cars.....
Not really surprising that a never Trumper would throw him under the bus though is it? The car market has changed and blaming a trade tarriff that will lead to a stronger America is simply bogus.
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:06 PM   #98
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We've gotten too political in here. Let's not allow our various political opinions divide us as car enthusiasts.

I'm shutting this one down.
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